Has anyone watched the 90 minute BBC documentary on Shamima Begum?

I think any Foreign Office time spent on her would be better spent trying to free Iranian-held prisoners and separating the Iranians from the Russians.

She also had a "friend" from the same school who had gone out there and was telling her that what was said about ISIS was not true. I have no doubt , the "friend" was also being manipulated by ISIS. I'm afraid people who believe she was not groomed are like the police who said that the girls in Rotherham had made a "life choice"! Thankfully, we now see that for what it was, grooming followed by violence and control.

I haven’t watched it but have read about it. I always thought that for those 3 girls - probably from families where they weren’t allowed much freedom - and were very susceptible to grooming - it was a sort of excitingly romantic Mills-and-Boon-y adventure, where they’d be going off to marry a handsome warrior - and doing it all in the name of Allah, which of course made it not only OK, but almost obligatory.

Doodledog

When I was 15, if David Essex had offered to whisk me away from my boring life and change it for being with him in a gypsy caravan where I could be free of school and parents, my only question would have been 'where do I sign?' I used to dream of dancing round a camp fire with him, and cooking delicious meals by the side of a stream, gazing into his twinkly eyes.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that a life on the open road is most definitely not for me, and could have told you that back then. . 15 year olds are not noted for their common sense, which is why they are technically children for another three years.

But if he’d said that in order to live this idyllic life you’d have to watch people being beheaded, and maybe be involved in killings, ,would you still have gone….

When I was 15, if David Essex had offered to whisk me away from my boring life and change it for being with him in a gypsy caravan where I could be free of school and parents, my only question would have been 'where do I sign?' I used to dream of dancing round a camp fire with him, and cooking delicious meals by the side of a stream, gazing into his twinkly eyes.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that a life on the open road is most definitely not for me, and could have told you that back then. . 15 year olds are not noted for their common sense, which is why they are technically children for another three years.

I don't think it matters whether or not she was groomed or whether or not she is a nice person. She is our responsibility and we should not shuffle that off for another country to deal with.

I watched the documentary and I have not changed my opinion of her. She said she believed she was leaving Bethnal Green for Islamic utopia, a place where Muslim girls were treated better than in the UK.
I really do not believe she was that naive, she gathered together all that is required to leave the country without alerting her parents or the authorities.
She had dual nationality, why does she not want to join her father in Bangladesh ?

I have not watched the documentary yet so maybe I have missed something, but where are her parents in all this? If it was my DD and I thought she was innocent I would be on every newsreel and in every newspaper fighting her cause.

Thankfully we don't live in a country where the criminal justice system is based on how likeable (or not) people are. I believe that Harold Shipman was very popular with his patients. If a fifteen year old girl had been trafficked to this country for the purposes of prostitution (because basically that is what it was) it would be her traffickers in court and she would be a witness. Anyone who believes that SB was free to leave or make her own decisions doesn't know much about how ISIS treats women. She is still at risk where she is now, so I'm sure that will have been very careful how she answered questions.

Doodledog

I saw the documentary. It was good, and I didn't change my mind - I felt that she was groomed and in any case too 15 is too young for anyone to be held responsible for a stupid decision for the rest of her life.

She isn't very likeable, but that shouldn't be a good reason to deny her citizenship. There is no way of knowing whether she is traumatised by what happened to her (she was married off to an abusive husband, sent to live with a man known to the authorities for being violent whilst her husband was in a toture jail, and had five pregnancies, two miscarriages and three dead babies), and I don't think that she would get a fair trial anyway - it would make more sense to have her case put before a panel of experts, such as psychologists and agents specialising in terrorism.

The longer she is denied entry to the UK, the older she will be (obviously!) and the more likely it is that she will be 'got at' in the camps, whether that is to attack her or recruit her to the cause again, if she left it as she says.

Totally agree with this. Remember also that she was being interviewed in a place that left her open to the danger of 'punishment' if her statements went against Isis. It must be terrifying.

Delila

I think she expected adventure and romance with dashing superheroes - she was fifteen. Bethnal Green couldn’t compare.

I agree, and it may have appealed rather than staying here and shoved into an arranged marriage.I don’t know if they were groomed or not.
Regardless of age I don’t think anyone should be stripped of nationality, they should be sent back to the country they were living in (UK in this case) and be dealt with here.

Given time to reflect on those earliest comments made when she was still influenced by, and surrounded by, extremist ideology, I would expect her to experience some quite fundamental changes, not necessarily brought about by coaching.

she was asked about the severed heads by western journalist, after the fall of isis, when in the camp.
her reaction was v telling, before she been coached in what to say, how to make the right impression.

I think she expected adventure and romance with dashing superheroes - she was fifteen. Bethnal Green couldn’t compare.

I think in that environment she was probably scared to show she cared. She knew she was being judged, not least by her ISIS fighter husband. Who she admits assaulted her.

He was asked in the documentary “have you seen Shamima since you were arrested? Would you be with her again if you could?”
“Of course - she is my wife” was his replay.

When Shamima was asked whether she would go back to her husband if she could, she replied “no way, I don’t need his crap”.

It was very telling those girls who went out to Syria could only leave the smelly, disgusting Centre that housed over 100 girls and women if they agreed to marry one of the ‘freedom fighters’. That meant of course that they were completely under the ruling of said male. Could only be out in public with him etc.

Have to speculate why she thought all this subjugation was better than a life in Bethnal Green....

Do you believe she really didn’t care Welbeck? I don’t.

she didn't care about the heads in the buckets because they were of infidels, or enemies of isis, so it was justified in her view, so that was ok.
whereas her friend was one of their own, so she was sad.
totally self-serving. no empathy. no morality.
it's not her i feel sorry for but all the victims of isis.

Delila

I really felt for her. She was a fifteen year-old, setting off for an escape from her life in Bethnal Green, preceded and encouraged by her best friend and accompanied by her two teenaged friends.

She got so much more than she bargained for, certainly not the freedom she had expected. She married an abusive, fanatical man, had three babies in rapid succession, all of whom lived only briefly.

I’m sure she has come away from those experiences damaged, traumatised and conflicted. She’s had to be shrewd, to learn to survive against all odds, still young, still speaks in the idiom of her east-end roots. But I saw an intelligent girl who shouldn’t be left to rot and grow more bitter in that camp.

My feeling throughout was “poor girl”.

The documentary made me think a lot about her situation, and I feel on balance more inclined to agree with your compassionate view of her. Of course we cannot really judge from a documentary and interview, but I feel it is right that she should return to the U.K. and answer in court for what she did.

Condemnation by social media and tabloids is not a fair way to treat her imo.

She does have a future. She's not dead, she's just not in the UK.

I really felt for her. She was a fifteen year-old, setting off for an escape from her life in Bethnal Green, preceded and encouraged by her best friend and accompanied by her two teenaged friends.

She got so much more than she bargained for, certainly not the freedom she had expected. She married an abusive, fanatical man, had three babies in rapid succession, all of whom lived only briefly.

I’m sure she has come away from those experiences damaged, traumatised and conflicted. She’s had to be shrewd, to learn to survive against all odds, still young, still speaks in the idiom of her east-end roots. But I saw an intelligent girl who shouldn’t be left to rot and grow more bitter in that camp.

My feeling throughout was “poor girl”.

I think Doodledog that over the years there have in fact been a few threads about SB. I just wondered, in the light of the recent documentary, whether it had prompted any change of opinion. It did for me so I was curious.

She doesn’t do herself any favours but I try to remember that she was just a child - the same age as my granddaughter is now.

But she wasn't responsible for the Manchester bombing.

Urmstongran, I thought the programme was interesting, and that she came across slightly better than in previous interviews I've seen.

I did wonder whether the journalist was hinting that there is more to the story than we know, particularly in the bits about the man she lived with when her husband was in jail, but I don't know.

If you aren't interested in what people think about SB, what is it about the programme that you want to know our opinions on?

Unlike the young victims of the Manchester bombing.

Very true *Merlotgran^.
One would have to assume such statements would be put to her in a Court of Law?

She would be confronted by her lifestyle choices.

But the point of my OP wasn’t just for opinions already formed about SB.

It was asking “have you watched the documentary and if so, what did you think?”.

Everyone deserves a future

But what if it’s snatched away from them?

Shamima Begum may have made an immature and unwise decision at the age of 15 but her future was in her hands.

Unlike the young victims of the Manchester bombing.