Violence in songs, poetry...

As I said, the list is endless. We could be flagging up songs for ever and a day. I think the problem with Delilah is that it is used as an anthem, not that it should be banned altogether. The vile lyrics in rap and punk songs may be worse but they are not used as anthems except maybe amongst their followers. Most people will never hear those songs unless they go looking for them.

There was a lady on GN once who posted that her choir were going to sing Delilah and she wasn't happy. To my shame, I made a joke about it and said she should ask them why, why why? I didn't realise she would be upset at my post. I did apologise but I still feel bad about it. Engage brain before mouth (or fingers) Kate.

Casdon your YYY joke is very funny. It made me laugh out loud.

Banning is pointless. Banned songs go straight to the top of the charts and get more attention than others, Also, IMO banning things is lazy and authoritarian. Far better to educate people to think about lyrics and the context in which they are written, so they change their minds.

NotSpaghetti

The story is that Bohemian Rhapsody is his story of coming out - so maybe it will survive, choughdancer?

Ah I didn't know that! It was the 'just killed a man, held my gun against his head, pulled the trigger now he's dead' I was thinking of.

I started this thread with tongue firmly in cheek, but I can see that some people may be hurt or triggered hearing them. I don't think most songs, books and poetry should be banned, though. I loved 'Little Black Sambo' as a child and now campaign against racism.

Doodledog

Banning is pointless. Banned songs go straight to the top of the charts and get more attention than others, Also, IMO banning things is lazy and authoritarian. Far better to educate people to think about lyrics and the context in which they are written, so they change their minds.

Absolutely agree. Like the statues of slave traders, they could be used to educate positively rather than arguing about banning or not banning.

No, not doomed - just perhaps people will listen to words and consider where they are. There are myriads of songs to choose - Delilah tune with other words would still make a great sing. Words DO matter - I was shocked as a teenager to learn that a different view of murder was taken when labelled 'a crime of passion'.

Sorry if I've been a downer choughdancer

Ilovecheese

Sorry if I've been a downer choughdancer

Not at all Ilovecheese! You are just expressing your views.

So pleased to see not everyone is bowing down to the woke brigade

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11713813/Welsh-rugby-fans-sing-Delilah-Six-Nations-clash-Ireland.html

What about what the English sing"Swing low sweet chariot coming for to carry me home", it's a slave song about wanting to go to heaven to get out of their hell. Maybe that should be banned as well. As everyone else has said where do we stop? Yes I laughed at why, why, why as well. Just the kind of quip we all would have made without thinking.

I don't believe we should ban any song, poem, book, etc. If so then what next..
It's just daft.

It’s been good to see a debate about Delilah. It’s an uncomfortable truth that domestic violence increases after sporting events, particularly football. Nicky Campbell’s 5 live phone in on Delilah had many calls from women who wished it wasn’t sung at rugby matches because of their experience of domestic abuse.

It’s a pity imo to simply dismiss concerns as ‘woke’ about an anthem in which a woman is killed by her jealous partner . Woke is a term like pc gone mad that’s often used to deny the impact of abuse, slavery etc.

I am against banning, but since it's the tune that really matters, why not change the words, as suggested by Caitlin Moran in The Times today? Max Bygraves scored a hit with a rewrite of the lyrics of Fings Ain't What They Use To Be, which the BBC would never have broadcast with the original lines in the Lionel Bart/Frank Norman musical, such as "Once in golden days of yore, ponces killed a lazy whore." "Once our beer was frothy, but now it's frothy coffee" was a bit of an anticlimax.

While we're at it, we could rewrite the offending verse of All Things Bright and Beautiful. Off hand, the only alternative I can suggest to "And ordered their estate" is "And left them to their fate," which perhaps isn't much of an improvement.

Iam64

It’s been good to see a debate about Delilah. It’s an uncomfortable truth that domestic violence increases after sporting events, particularly football. Nicky Campbell’s 5 live phone in on Delilah had many calls from women who wished it wasn’t sung at rugby matches because of their experience of domestic abuse.

It’s a pity imo to simply dismiss concerns as ‘woke’ about an anthem in which a woman is killed by her jealous partner . Woke is a term like pc gone mad that’s often used to deny the impact of abuse, slavery etc.

Abuse was around before Delilah, I doubt anyone intent on abuse/violence/modern day slavery is influenced by a Tom Jones song or any other song/poem.

It’s similar to saying girls with short skirts/low necklines are asking for it

I really like the tune Island girl by Elton John, but it is now quite controversial.

Yammy

What about what the English sing"Swing low sweet chariot coming for to carry me home", it's a slave song about wanting to go to heaven to get out of their hell. Maybe that should be banned as well. As everyone else has said where do we stop? Yes I laughed at why, why, why as well. Just the kind of quip we all would have made without thinking.

I have no idea why that is connected to sport, but in general I wouldn't be in favour of banning slave songs as if that happened they would be lost from knowledge, and that would be a bad thing, IMO. Things like songs, poems, dances, language itself say a lot about cultures and epochs, and it's important that we do remember slavery and how it was for the enslaved people.

I heard the programme and was thoroughly irritated, every time that woman said the word "narrative" I felt like swearing. We need to get a grip or we'll just end up destroying everything. Romeo and Juliet were both underage, Caliban in The tempest is described as a dark earthy slave, Puck is used to administer mind altering drugs to make Titania fall in love with an animal, many authors, composers, artists etc had questionable political affiliations or proclivities. We can't just ban everything that someone finds offensive, we need to learn from our past and try to do better!

I agree Doodledog once songs, poems and books begin to be banned we are on a slippery slope.

I do not agree with culture washing the past.

GrannyGravy, I’m well aware domestic abuse is as old as time. I posted about the number of women who took the trouble to phone and talk about being upset by Delilah being sung when they were enjoying rugby because of their dv experience. I don’t understand how that could be in any way similar to girls in short skirts ‘asking for it

Iam64

GrannyGravy, I’m well aware domestic abuse is as old as time. I posted about the number of women who took the trouble to phone and talk about being upset by Delilah being sung when they were enjoying rugby because of their dv experience. I don’t understand how that could be in any way similar to girls in short skirts ‘asking for it

Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear.

Songs, women’s clothing and their behaviour should not be held up as an excuse by men for their violence towards them.

(Posting quickly whilst getting ready to go out)

choughdancer My Last Duchess is a brilliant poem, it makes my blood run cold every time I read it.

The first time I read it, I had to re-read it to confirm the ending really was what it was, it was so low key.

It is in my personal file of favourite poems - and will stay there!

Monica have you read 'Porphyria's Lover?' Equally chilling

I haven't, but I am just about to.