Violence in songs, poetry...

Matter not case

My father was a very violent man. He went to prison for it.
Who did he listen to all the time.
Billy Eckstine.
Nat King Cole
Al Martino
Frank Sinatra
Patti Page
Dinah Washington.
Sarah Vaughn.
Not a violent word between all these artists.

M0nica

choughdancer My Last Duchess is a brilliant poem, it makes my blood run cold every time I read it.

The first time I read it, I had to re-read it to confirm the ending really was what it was, it was so low key.

It is in my personal file of favourite poems - and will stay there!

I have taught this at O level. Brilliant poem by Browning.

M0nica

I have read it, Grandmabatty. Yes, I have read it, and very chilling, apart from anything else, it is written in the first person, which I find rather frightening. At least 'My LD' is describing someone elses behaviour.

I am left feeling wary, almost of all Browning's poetry. These to poems together suggest something very strange in his psyche.

My Last Duchess IS written in the first person and all the more chilling for it.
I love the Browning poems that I have read, and I think that he is very good at putting over the characters of the people in his poems rather than showing any personality problems.
I have to admit I haven't read all of the very long ones!

NotSpaghetti

choughdancer - just found this. The Bohemian Rhapsody conversations are towards the end.

www.google.com/amp/s/m.thewire.in/article/culture/is-bohemian-rhapsody-really-all-about-freddie-mercury/amp

Fascinating! Thank you Not Spaghetti. And I agree with your previous post too about 'Young Girl'.

I think the Browning poems are in the same vein as Edgar Allan Poe or Steven King. They are chilling, but are meant to be read as such.

As I said upthread, the Beatles 'Run For Your Life' is (to me) far worse, on a number of levels. The woman is a 'little girl' who is threatened with death if she is seen with 'another man', so it's exist as well as controlling and violent. The tune makes it clear that this is not a character-led study of a psychopath, but a song to a girlfriend by a jealous lover. It's horrible, and if I were on a 'banning' panel (most unlikely ) and that one came up I would happily scratch if from radio play. Leave it as an album track, by all means, but it's not something I'd want to hear children singing along to.

The lyrics are here

GrannyGravy13

I agree Doodledog once songs, poems and books begin to be banned we are on a slippery slope.

I do not agree with culture washing the past.

I agree with both of you that after moving to the birthplace of William Wilberforce and the City being twinned with Free Town Siera leone, I am well aware of slavery . I taught there for many years yet I can only remember visiting the museum once with pupils. Perhaps they go a lot more now.
I also have a coloured family who was some of the first policemen in England in my extended family. The first had been brought to England as a black toy and given freedom.
Books and poems help us remember the horrors of the past and remind us not to repeat them.

Choughdancer I didn't explain myself clearly. MyLD is written in the first person, but that person is speaking to the silent unnamed listener, so there is distance between the speaker and the poet and the violence is second hand. The speaker spoke, and something happened elsewhere, done by someone else. In Porphyria it reads as if the writer of the poem is the person doing the killing - and enjoying it.

The stalking ones are creepy imo.

The legal line has to be actual direct incitement to violence or hate.

Otherwise, debate, query. That's being culturally alive, not "PC"

I dont believe in banning but it's obviously absolutely fine for people to express the view that they find a song creepy or they dont like the threats of violence towards women, that is just expressing an opinion on the art.

When I was young can remember thinking what a horrible song Hang Down Your Head Tom Dooley was. I believe it's based on a true story.

I do agree with prefacing, for example, a film that is very offensive even tho "historically" acceptable, with a brief statement. We can't take for granted that everyone who might listen or watch a film mightn't be influenced, but the brief introduction gives the choice.

I would like to think for example that my grandchildren were given this gentle reminder: we certainly did with DS, age appropriate. He didn't live through for example the Civil Rights movements in the USA of the 1960's nor the beginning of equality for women in the workplace. A bit of history is never untoward.

I don’t believe the songs initiate domestic abuse, more that they could be seen to condone it. I also accept Delilah is a great sing along anthem - if yiu ignore the lyrics
Thanks GrannyGravy for clarifying your comment about short skirts/do/deserving it. I should have realised what you meant.

Google tells me the Beatles song Run for your Life is credited to Lennon and McCartney but largely written by Lennon. The lyrics are truly grim

I also agree with GrannyGravy - we shouldn’t culture wash the past. Mr i was instructed by publishers that his history of social work needed amending because it referred to lunatics and cripples. He pointed out, it’s a history, they’re the terms user and there’s a piece at the beginning and I g the publicity saying words will be used in historical context

Iam64 I don’t believe the songs initiate domestic abuse, more that they could be seen to condone it.

I agree.

Additionally I have standards that I prefer not be crossed. If that means avoiding some music, I can avoid that music.

There was outrage when the Dixie Chicks sang "Goodbye Earl", although not quite so much outrage as when they apologised for George W. I reckon every woman who had ever been abused by a partner, loved it. It didn't persuade women to kill abusive partners; it just made them feel better.

"I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her,
and kept her apart from the things that she loved"
Lyrics from "Getting Better" by the Beatles! Such a lively cheerful song too.

I don't see any harm in producers of radio shows having a bit of wisdom in choosing playlists to not play extreme stuff.

However, lets talk "Balance".

There is a whole genre of songs mostly by women who have escaped abusive relationships. Some are upfront, some subtle.
they helped me a great deal - still do having got out of a coercively abusive marriage last year. Let playlists include some of these too more often.

Upfront - Alettac -Love to Waste
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0X06v9yxE

Or the subtle but wonderful Sara Bareilles about getting herself back after such a relationship
Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine
www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM

Singing songs that mention violence causes me no problems. What is unacceptable is singing songs encouraging or glorying indoing so.

Life is full of violence. It is in all of us, not necessarily physical violence, Mostly we channel it. Isn't running a race and being determined to win channelled aggression?

Absolutely ridiculous. No way does a song incite violence. this was jut the WRU's way of distracting attention from the bigger issues that affect them

I don't think a song can incite violence in the way a movie or video game can, because they provide graphic visual images which can be played over and over again, both on the screen and in the brain.

I am nt sure. I have been listening to Women's Hour this morning. On it was a woman who son was knifed to death randomly by a stranger and has been working with schools to try and prevent knife crime.

She talked about listening to drill music herself with other people and said she found herself becoming hyped up and vibrant hile listening to it. It wouldn't incite her to go out and knife someone but she said she can see how it could shape the perceptions of young people who listened to it a lot, so that they do get caught up into a culture of knives and threaats.

Drill music can't be called a 'song' in the true meaning of the word. Google says:
'Serious concerns have been raised that drill music causes violence through the use of lyrics and imagery which glorify gang crime and violence. It is commonly asserted that drill content often contains specific references to individuals and groups in a way that causes violent acts.'

Helenlouise3

Absolutely ridiculous. No way does a song incite violence. this was jut the WRU's way of distracting attention from the bigger issues that affect them

Perhaps they need to reinstate “Delilah” if only to avoid the shellacking they have received in the Six Nations so far?

I heard the Woman’s Hour piece on knife crime MOnica. Radio 5 live had a phone in on the subject this morning, so some good coverage. The interviewers took the line that drill music, like any other music, couldn’t be blamed for knife crime, for young men carrying knives.
The experts, the mothers of victims and the retired police superintendent were strong in the belief that Drill does promote violence with knives

"No way does a song incite violence." How about the Marseillaise?