Why oh why is there so much hate

Callistemon21

Casdon

Time to stop the gossip on this case I think. We don’t know what happened yet.

I agree.
This thread is quite shocking.

A child has been murdered, friends and family traumatised.
Killed by other children so two other families must be distraught too.

😥

Totally agree 👍

MerylStreep, Logic, facts, evidence - often completely ignored on here, just people expressing opinions. BlueBelle's question isn't looking for an answer - as she's already convinced it's the 'hate'!:
'Hetty I m not hung up on the numbers I m hung up on the hate causing the numbers'

The view that some people are more "evolved" than others sounds like the views held by colonial missionaries, imposing their so called superior ideology on to other nations.

Casdon

Time to stop the gossip on this case I think. We don’t know what happened yet.

I agree.
This thread is quite shocking.

A child has been murdered, friends and family traumatised.
Killed by other children so two other families must be distraught too.

😥

Is transgender a protected group?

Time to stop the gossip on this case I think. We don’t know what happened yet.

Fleurpepper
You stated categorically that she was murdered because she was trans
Now today you have stated so we don’t know if her killing was related to being trans or different

There's nothing new about the victimisation of the 'different', the pressure to be normal (whatever that is) - the relative safety as one of the crowd.

Examples go right back through history, often fuelled by fear (not hate) of minority groups. Is it a basic reaction, as with animals attacking one of their own with obvious differences?

It's there in the school playground - be in with the bullies or victims - your choice. Look to your leaders (the staff), which group do they belong to? We can stay on the edges, avoid being violent, look the other way - but are we brave enough to intervene?

Of course, we like to think (in theory) that we're kind, considerate, open-minded, loving and reasonable. What happens when things suddenly get dodgy, out of our control or downright dangerous? We're aware of the threat, our survival instinct kicks in and we're truly frightened? How we react can come as such a shock!

Basically, we're still hunter gatherers, cruel, violent savages, just underneath the surface, after all.

Sorry to hark on, FP, but who has 'totally denied what her wishes would have been'?

I'm not sure who you are accusing of what, now.

A 'hate crime' is a specific category, which refers to crimes carried out because the victim is a member of a protected group, and being transgender is one of those groups. If the police thought that the reason she was killed was because of this, it would be categorised as a hate crime, and there would be a harsher penalty. Similarly, people killed or otherwise targeted) because of race or disability would have the crime categorised as 'hate crimes'. If they were target for other reasons, the crimes would not be listed as such - there would be no point in having the categories otherwise.

At this stage, it would appear that they do not think that Brianna's death was a hate crime. The murder is equally tragic whatever the motive, but to hijack it to make a point about transpeople is what is 'sad', IMO.

Was there ever a time when things were safer, though? We find out about a lot more now, but I'm not convinced that we are on the road to anarchy or that things are worse than they used to be. The 1970s were very violent on the streets, the 60s had mods and rockers, and more sinister criminals such as the Krays, the 50s had Teddy Boys and so on.

It was always terrible when someone died or was attacked, but I wonder how much in the past was simply not reported (or sorted out in a 'traditional' manner by 'sending the boys round')
I don't think there has been a golden age of safety though - not outside of picture-postcard villages at least, and even then we didn't know what went on behind closed doors until it was too late.

Urmstongran

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

The girl was constantly bullied for being trans, over quite a period of time. But for whatever reason, hatred and violence. Saying being trans had nothing to do with it certainly has an agenda.

But whatever the reason, it seems sad that her death certificate, after so much bullying and ending in her death, related or not- will give her male name rather than the one she chose to use, with passion.

Parents are mourning the death of their child and people are complaining about what name will be on the death certificate…

Oh GG13 spot on!
What does it matter in the big sea? A child’s life has been trashed.
Unbelievably and irrevocably gone.

RIP Brianna.

No, it does not matter to you. It does not matter to me. And that is totally irrelevant.

And I don't know how her parents feel about it. I imagine that probably it matters to them, because their were very supportive of their daughter, and because they know that it would have mattered hugely to her- then they would care. And that they would be distraught, on top of their massive pain and grieving, that the Daily Mail would have phoned her opticians' to find out about her male name. As such, yes it does matter, to Brianna first of all.

How can the police say someone being killed by other teenagers is 'not a hate crime' - what else is it, a 'love' crime???

So we don't know if her killing was related to her being trans, or to her being 'different' - but hate it is. I agree her chosen gender should not be used to whip up more hatred- but totally denying what her wishes would have been, in a thread about too much hate' - is beyond sad.

Apologies Wyllow I suppose I was just trying to say that war time is very stressful. Thinking too of Ukraine. And yes, people are worried now about climate change, utility and food bills, job insecurity etc but not quite on the same scale as “will we get bombed today”. So scary to live through such events. But yes, I do also take your point. There is a lot of anger about these days.

Gangs breeding hatred, drug use is up - people are ‘pumped up’. We would think twice before intervening if we witnessed any kind of altercation nowadays - you just don’t know what people are on.

And social media doesn’t help. Tweets about this and that with inflammatory remarks. News of a fight or planned retaliation for some slight is easy to organise by calling mates on their mobiles. Of course years ago all this wasn’t possible to arrange so quickly as it is now.

It’s very depressing.

Then I remember most people are nice and that cheers me.

Yes, I don’t understand comments saying that if people post about one area of concern they mustn’t care about others. There’s no limit to the number of things people can care about.

I agree about name-calling, Grannygravy. Othering groups of people is what causes hate in the first place. When people have evolved to learn that we are all equal but different there might be a reduction in hate crime figures, but we (as a species) are a long way from that, unfortunately. Meanwhile a zero tolerance approach to violence might be the way forward. The trouble is that people can kill one another without weapons, so it’s difficult to stop them. It is so difficult to understand the thought processes of those who want to kill others, or who have so little regard for human life that they just don’t care if they do.

Smileless2012

^but now it seems as if murder is happening for no other reason than hate of difference^ it's chilling isn't it BlueBelle.

That’s no different to how it’s always been though, religion, disability, race, class, sexuality, etc. have always been the grounds for murder.

but now it seems as if murder is happening for no other reason than hate of difference it's chilling isn't it BlueBelle.

Hetty I m not hung up on the numbers I m hung up on the hate causing the numbers
I do read about so much more killing with no real meaning but hate, you are lucky if you don’t see this hate but I do.
I m guessing you don’t go on any other social media especially
those aimed at the young, there is anger and hate whipped up on them

No murder is acceptable but while not understanding it some circumstances can give an explanation a betrayal, a robbery gone wrong etc etc jealousy but now it seems as if murder is happening for no other reason than hate of difference
Walking or running up to someone you don’t like and putting a knife through them !!!!

I think comparing it to the Turkish/ Syrian earthquake is a cop out I have cried over that and donated like most others on here I m sure have, but thats an act of God if you believe or an act of nature if you don’t, that’s not one of pure hatred it’s a totally different thing not a competition both situations are completely heart breaking

VioletSky I fail to see how calling people knuckle draggers or cave dwellers is helpful, surely name calling categorises the caller ?

Urmstongran

^I feel many people now lead more stressed lives than they did^

I imagine life during WWII was pretty stressful Wyllow.

Hi Urms Just trying to understand your point? I was thinking that a lot of working lives were perhaps now more stressful than say the 1960's in my post.

BlueBelle, have a look at Figure 1:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2022#:~:text=Figure%201%3A%20Prevalence%20of%20CSEW,years%20following%20long%2Dterm%20falls

We are more aware, simply because of the media - that's all. The concept of 'hate' crime is fairly recent too. 'Why is everyone so angry?' Are they? I see no evidence of an increase.

Every death is a tragedy, of course - but how can anyone have such a narrow focus (teenagers, UK) when the news is so horrendous, right now, about the earthquakes, with a death toll of 33,000 - set to double (at least). Yet here, on planet Gransnet, there's hardly a mention of it!

Some people can be better if they try, if they get the right help or meet the right people

Like many things it seems to be a combination of nature and nurture

I think the issues are much more complex that's all.

There are lots of articles about prejudice from an evolutionary perspective...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_from_an_evolutionary_perspective

I don't have any problem telling prejudice people like sexists and racists that their thinking is backward, illogical and lacking in empathy

I'm surprised anyone would and I don't understand why it's being argued against really

Still, I just think those people should stop with hate speech and violence, I'd be quite happy to get along with them if they did.

Maybe some sort of counselling or therapy to help them resolve the issues they have that led to becoming unhappy angry people would help

Smileless2012

Both incidents do appear to have been hijacked Doodledog and it's particularly upsetting to see this with the tragic death of Brianna.

Thank you, Smileless.

Yes, Galaxy - the notion that there are groups in society which are more or less 'evolved' is the epitome of prejudice and is ultimately what leads to attacks on people perceived to be at the bottom of the evolutionary pile. Which is, of course, where we came in.

Not sure what your problem is galaxy but ok

Yes people believing they are more 'evolved' than others has always worked out well.