The demise of town centres

Greyduster

I paid a rare visit to our town centre last week and I was shocked at the decline. We are one of the largest cities in England and many of our major retailers have closed down: John Lewis and Debenhams to name but two. We are expecting M&S to be the next to add to the death knell. The council don’t seem to have a clue at how to make the city an attractive place to do business. Having a very large out of town retail park doesn’t help, or the increase in online shopping.

"I paid a rare visit...".

Isn't that the problem? Which came first? The rare visit or the shop closures?

Yesterday we went from Bristol to Wiltshire to visit family and was shocked at how desolate and scruffy Warminster’s High Street was. It’s the same everywhere, It’s not just Towns it’s cities as well. Bristols once much visited Broadmead has lost its Marks and Spencer’s recently and many other large department stores over the last ten years or so. I blame out of town retail parks and online shopping especially Amazon. I use Amazon myself as well as other online shops so I’m part of the problem. High Streets now are full of cafes, take always, estate agents, charity shops and beauticians and the odd convenience store but not much else it seems except boarded up units.

This is a subject close to my heart. Im live in Dawlish in Devon but was born and raised in Exeter, about 12 miles from here.
I remember as a kid in the 1950s and 1960s the city centre in Exeter being vibrant and full of many small businesses run by local people and families. Of course there were some big names too, Woolworths, M&S, BHS but, now almost all of the local businesses have disappeared and even Woolies and BHS have disappeared, being replaced in many cases with big national chains or international names.
There is a sea change going on in town centres all over the country. I think this is happening, in part, because the small business person can no longer afford the rents and business rates. Of course, the conglomerates can, so they tend to dominate and are growing like Topsy.
I find it very sad. Faceless enterprises with no local connection or thought for the local area.
I have also never known a time when so many properties have been empty in the city centre. One street here, which was once vibrant and full of activity, is now home to a multitude of take aways (usually owned and run by ethnic families), charity shops and fast food places. Again, some small local businesses have closed down (two eating places in the past year alone). There has also been a proliferation of street sleepers and there is even a tatty pharmacy which seems to have the main function of supplying drugs and methadone to the local community. It is a very different landscape to that of 50/60 years ag o. There have even been several knife attacks recently.....unheard of back then.
I really do fear for the futures of today's young people as the country that I grew up in seems to be falling further and further into the abyss.

farview

Our once beautiful town...the biggest town in the UK..has become a ghost town...our council over the years have made a complete mess of it...we have a beautiful Town Hall and stunning civic centre..which is used a lot by filling crews I.e ..Red Rose
..Pesky Blinders..Happy Valley..to name a few...
Its difficult to walk through town now without being stopped by beggars,homeless people etc...sad!
We do also have a huge retail park..out of town...and that,even though I use it myself as parking is free,has added to the demise of our once beautiful town.😪

Peaky Blinders was filmed in Reading?

Can we see beyond the notion that town centres have some kind of divine right to exist in their historical forms? Surely they will over time evolve into other uses including housing. Many European towns and cities have far larger central populations than is usual in the UK. High Street shopping decays because people like the convenience of out-of-town shopping with its hassle-free parking and an ageing population is likely to want food delivered to the door. Online shopping, Covid, etc., have accelerated a pre-existing trend. Railing against the demise of the High Street won't change any of that.

Different economics apply to tourist towns and cities as their centres have many more wealthier visitors spending money.

My nearest town has suffered a great deal with the loss of well known stores, leaving empty stores to to be filled by charity shops who often pay little or no rent or rates, no wages and nothing for their stock. Hardly surprising that small independents are being priced out of the market.

Internet shopping is here to stay, so the only way to revitalise town centres is to make them attractive easy to reach destinations of choice for services. Eventually the NHS will create mega doctors practices and health centres in town centres, but the will need to be well served by public transport links for those without own transport . With a bit of joined up thinking they will join the dentists, opticians, chiropodists, cafes, bars restaurants, gyms, fitness centres, hairdressers, tattoo parlours and nail bars and cinema and theatres and live entertainment, and anything else you can't buy online. Eventually retailers will open smaller browsing stores where you can go to see the choice of products IRL, to try them out, see the colours, quality, sizes on offer and try things on for size and fit, but your final selection will be dispatched to your home from a warehouse, so you don't have to carry it home on public transport and so the store isn't paying to store stock in prime retail areas.

It's interesting to see Amazon opening physical stores now that they have shut down the competition and whether they are working..

I think it will take 20-30 years for all this to happen in many towns unless there is some serious joined up thinking.

Our local council allows two hours free parking( as does Morrisons ) and I do think that makes a difference to the high street. Yes we have a plethora of charity shops and cafes , but that allows people to pop into M& S and the bank / building society. That’s got to be good.

Going same way as USA with retail parks all out of town. Cheaper rents larger outlets bigger parking areas. Such a shame.

usuallyright

Quick question somewhat related. Manchester has now introduced a tourist tax, so how does that encourage people to go to Manchester? I know that I shall avoid Manchester like the plague.

I think that tourist taxes apply to accommodation, not to shopping.

I live in berkshire, my nearest town is Reading which I hadnt been into since Covid. I was surprised recently when walking into town how very little shops are left. Its now mainly cafes and restaurants.

Quick question somewhat related. Manchester has now introduced a tourist tax, so how does that encourage people to go to Manchester? I know that I shall avoid Manchester like the plague.

Car parking and infrequent public transport makes it difficult for us to visit apart from there is no decent shops to actually shop in . My nearest is Stockport in NW England . We had a thriving market indoors and out plus the norm of BHS , M/ S and Debenhams. Primark lures the teenagers but any clothes for an event that I like to try on and I am struggling to think where .

I live just outside a major tourist town and we had lots of empty shops, beggers and homeless people but the council working with the Police and charities got court orders for the major drug dealers/users and beggers (part of a couple of gangs) and they were excluded from the town and local areas and the homeless were either in accommodation and being treated or issued with court orders to leave. I understand all the arguements of the above. Anyhow, the council have worked hard to clean up the centre and a lot of empty shop spaces have been occupied and there is some modernisation underway. Its great for tourism but as a resident, I still shop 4 miles away at another seaside shopping area which has individual shops which are well used, there are a couple of empty shops and M&Co are going soon M&S foods is extremely busy and lots of free parking.

My local town is thriving and the area where all the independants are is absolutely buzzing but it is an all year round seaside town. In the main shopping centre there have been a few closures and it's looking a run down in some places.. we lost a large Debenhams for example and recently Paperchase..but there are masses of coffee venues.. always loads of people on the streets..

I think a simple scheme would be the council offering a number of hours free parking on a weekend. The town my dd lives in has a 1 hour parking and no paid car parks, so the only other option is 2 hours on the supermarket car park. How does that encourage people to come and look round the market/shops and then maybe have a drink in a cafe or meal in the pubs. It's hardly any time at all

LauraNorderr

John Prescott once suggested that the areas above town centre shops could be made into attractive residential spaces for say the over fifties or younger childless people. Thus a customer base for small cafes, bookshops, individual clothing and small food shops. This in turn would free up the larger suburban homes with gardens for families.
The next generation are even more likely than us to shop on line or out of town so thinking of using town centre space differently is the way forward.

I think John Prescott had a point here.

15 minute cities- another method of control, you will only be allowed a certain number of visits outside your 15 minute area. Take a look at the state of China, it is no longer scaremongering. The people of China have no freedom, their every move is monitored and no money just digital "credits". Digital currency sound familiar?
So glad I am on way out of this world, but worry for my grandchildren.

My local town centre is dire! A few chain stores and a lot of empty spaces where thriving shops used to be. LOTS of cafes and food outlets (how does anyone afford them?), a few vape shops and £ shops. The council have a BID team but what difference it makes I don’t know, given that the town is ugly, not much greenery, very few benches due to vandalism and unsympathetic town ‘planning’. And this is a south coast seaside town! The quay is ok but blocks of expensive flats and a plastic looking marina have dimmed its charm. Beaches ok too but not much around for holidaymakers to do. I feel sorry for them and the lack of facilities and shops! The famous holiday destination just up the coast from us is in an even worse state! Lots of out of town retail destinations around which have ruined many places plus internet shopping. I don’t think it’s all due to Covid as it has been happening for years. Different lifestyles and backward looking councils are to blame-high rents/rates etc. plus cost of living crisis in UK which means many are poorer. I don’t know the answer but doubt that in some places things will ever be as they once were.

I'm in a suburb of Newcastle upon Tyne.
When I moved here, over 20 years ago, there was a fantastic variety of shops and you could pretty much avoid going into the city centre..most things were available.
Now there's a lot of private landlords who have no interest at all in either the property or who lives there and antisocial behaviour is increasing.
Several banks and building societies have closed.
When a new shop opens or is refurbished, it's likely to be a charity shop...
The council are suggesting plans to improve the area but I do wonder if the rot is too ingrained!

I agree 100% with doodledog

I have to agree with Doodledog as well, the traditional High Street has gone and councils need to think of alternative plans. Each town will have different needs and budgets but if everyone could work together things would change over time. Maybe this is just a pipe dream.

Just wanted to add to my post, that I felt very uneasy in town with all the beggars and people shouting at random. I’ve never felt so nervous getting money from the hole in the wall and was glad to get back to the car park. But there was a worrying looking man begging on the steps! I won’t be going again in a hurry.

Yes, it says it all really that I paid a rare visit to our city yesterday and was shocked at the empty shops, one after another. If it wasn't for M & S, Boots, Next and WH Smith (although I don’t think that will last long) there were NO shops at all on the Main Street! We still have a huge gaping closure of BHS and Debenhams too. I do occasionally go to out of town retail parks but the traffic is so horrendous, I am reluctant to do even that! I’m afraid it’s online for me which is almost too easy.

I’m lucky I live in a thriving riverside town, having said that the empty shops have been filled with cafes, restaurants, expensive men’s and women’s clothing shops.

We are losing our M and Co for a vast Weatherspoons, there is nowhere to buy underwear or reasonably priced clothes. On the plus side we have 6 charity shops.

We have a Boutique cinema coming, not sure what that will be like. 🤔

Super to hear some shops are thriving.
Our community shop does well too. It is partly run by volunteers like me.