Would my grandson's uni tell employer he was expelled

I agree broadly with Doodledog It will depend upon the career which your grandsom is considering. If it is one where due dilligence in referencing is important then you need to decide who/if you are going to present information to regarding uni 1.

For more ordinary employment purposes I would simply present the information from uni 2, the one from which he received his degree. A reference from his professor/head of department and an employment reference (if appropriate) should be sufficient.

My own educational attainments are excellent but I never tell people more than I think they need to know.

YES that is what is happening
In this case would the student services tell the bank about the expulsion or only mention the dates
The employer wants every year since graduating what happened

In my opinion (although I appear to be alone in this), probably.

So, (I’m back!) is OP worrying needlessly?

FannyCornforth

Doodledog I’d definitely be interested as to why he left Uni A and went to Uni B.
It would definitely pique my interest.

Tbh if I were him and being deceitful, I would have gone the whole hog and not mentioned Uni A at all

In large organisations, CVs/application forms are not to satisfy the nosiness of recruiting staff . Remember that everyone is usually asked the same questions, and that if the application is on a CV there is no need to flag up university A at all.

A qualifications section need only have the dates of awards with the awarding body (in this case University B) . Chronological CVs accounting for every year since starting school aren't necessary.

Thanks Doodledog
I’m getting more and more confused by this thread, so I’m going to leave it be for a while!
Happy Easter to you🌹

That's why I mentioned the nature of the request. With a CV, you control the nature of the information, and with an application form that passes to the employer, who can ask what they like.

It's not clear from either OP whether the employer has asked specifically for information about the 'gap'. If they have there is no choice but to come clean, in which case I would speak to the university and ask them to 'be kind'. They will have to be truthful, but there are ways of presenting the truth. If the OP is asking about a more general request for references, I would get one from the university from which he graduated, and another from an employer if there is one.

In neither event would I expect the grandson's future to be significantly compromised if the career is in banking.

Doodledog I’d definitely be interested as to why he left Uni A and went to Uni B.
It would definitely pique my interest.

Tbh if I were him and being deceitful, I would have gone the whole hog and not mentioned Uni A at all

It seems not correct then!
I have had to do it for teaching jobs and TA jobs too

PandaPatch that sounds like something different to me.
That sounds like skills analysis.

In this case the employer just needs to know what you he was doing when.
You need to explain ‘gaps’ in your education and work history eg rearing children, volunteering, travelling.
For example I had to explain why I abandoned my first PGCE (bereavement)

It’s standard practice.

Is my understanding correct Doodledog, Shep?

FannyCornforth

He’s going to have to say why he left university A and then went to university B, surely?

Sorry if this is overly simplistic or I’m missing something

Why?

It will be the degree that interests his employer, which he got from University B, so the rest can be glossed over, IMO. It's not relevant to the job.

This is not a confessional - it's a job application.

Ahhh, I have just read your new thread.
I had never heard of gap analysis so googled it
"HR Gap Analysis identifies possible personnel and skill deficiencies by assessing the skills of your current workforce compared to the workforce you will need to reach your key business goals. "
Is it possible that this is what they are doing and your grandson just feels guilty about his past and non- disclosure.?

He’s going to have to say why he left university A and then went to university B, surely?

Sorry if this is overly simplistic or I’m missing something

I am confused, why does his employer want to verify his educational history? I
s it like reference?, but those are usually taken before you get a job.
Is this his first job after grauduating?
I had to give lots of references in my job, but in later years we only ever confirmed the dates of employment, as is the norm these days. I doubt the university would do anything different

Yes what a sensible post doodledog

Doodledog you sniff it through the note, not off it!

worriedgrandma

Primrose53

Worriedgrandma. I feel you want someone to come on and say he should say nothing because that’s what you want to hear but I doubt they will.

You just never know, when doing stuff like this, that you will get caught out. What about if somebody from Uni 1 came to work there and remembered him? Paths cross, people move and secrets come out.

But i am asking if student services from uni 1 may tell his fund manager employer ...

i doubt his uni friends told anyone as he didnt tell his uni friends what happened

It is difficult to be sure, but as someone who worked in a university for over 20 years, and who gave numerous references, I doubt it very much. Unless I could say good things about a student, I would just say that they attended between x and y and leave it at that. Staff don't want to blight the careers of young people, so I would be very surprised if they would say anything. If he only attended for a year, the chances are that the course leader won't even remember him - a lot of students 'go through our hands', and with the best will in the world, we don't remember them all personally.

If there had been a huge incident it will have stuck in people's minds, but someone getting caught with drugs in their room happens a lot, and if the student hadn't made a big impression in other ways, it is quite possible that it won't be remembered. Very many more students take drugs than are caught with them, so it's usually more a case of needing to be seen to be acting, although the fact that it led to expulsion suggests that there was maybe more to it than that?

If it were me, I would base my decision on the nature of the job and the nature of the request. If it's the sort of thing that a whiff of 'scandal' might compromise, or if the employer has asked for a detailed character reference then I might phone the university and speak to the course leader at the time of your grandson's studies, (but doing so will, of course, make remembrance more likely), but if it's an ordinary reference request I wouldn't bother. If the police were involved, I would think again, but look at the likes of Michael Gove, Bill Clinton, Prince Harry and more. They have all admitted taking drugs as students. Boris Johnson and David Cameron were PMs (and George Osbourne the Chancellor) and their behaviour in the Bullingdon Club was less than exemplary. People are allowed to make mistakes as students. Bankers have a reputation (deserved or otherwise) for sniffing coke off banknotes . If a significant number of his colleagues have not done likewise I would eat my hat, and I can't see them being unduly shocked. Try not to worry too much.

If he were mine I'd tell him to be honest, not lie, pray for mercy.

End of.

You can’t seriously believe that nobody knows! If, as I have suggested and you haven’t corrected me, he was dealing drugs that would have involved a network of people. A serious criminal offence and he only has a clean record because he wasn’t reported. Suddenly he’s sent down - a very rare thing - and nobody is missing their supplies, gossiping, speculating? Other people do know, you may depend on that, and as I have just said on your other thread something has caused his employer to investigate his academic history now. He has already deceived them by the calculated way he went about getting a reference to secure the job in the first place, and he is now seeking to perpetuate that deceit. If you were my grandmother or my mother you would be telling me to come clean, not trying to help me to continue my deceit. If he doesn’t tell his employer he is a target for blackmail - have you considered that?

I’d be extremely surprised if his uni friends didn’t know what happened!

Primrose53

Worriedgrandma. I feel you want someone to come on and say he should say nothing because that’s what you want to hear but I doubt they will.

You just never know, when doing stuff like this, that you will get caught out. What about if somebody from Uni 1 came to work there and remembered him? Paths cross, people move and secrets come out.

But i am asking if student services from uni 1 may tell his fund manager employer ...

i doubt his uni friends told anyone as he didnt tell his uni friends what happened

Worriedgrandma. I feel you want someone to come on and say he should say nothing because that’s what you want to hear but I doubt they will.

You just never know, when doing stuff like this, that you will get caught out. What about if somebody from Uni 1 came to work there and remembered him? Paths cross, people move and secrets come out.

There must be a lot of people who know - his fellow students for instance. The financial sector is tightly knit. My son works in it as do his university friends. I have no idea what the first university might say but as a retired solicitor I can tell you that the law is that in giving a reference one must not lie or mislead. This was obviously a serious incident and they may feel duty bound to disclose it. My suspicion is that it involved dealing and the university decided not to involve the police; it is rare to be sent down other than for academic failure. In my experience honesty is the best policy, though the consequence may be unfortunate. Tell the employer before someone else does. I wouldn’t want to be constantly looking over my shoulder, worrying about meeting someone who knows my background, would you?

Who would tell his employer if he was expelled though? Would his first uni say something in their reference?

But he would be working with clients’ money. Yes I know it’s not cash, I know what fund managers do - but trust is important. He should tell the truth before someone else does.