Would my grandson's uni tell employer he was expelled

Having worked in the university system in the 90s and 00s I would be very surprised if there was intercommunication of this kind between different universities. Surely your grandson can get references from his professor or personal tutor at uni 2 since he completed his degree there. Also if he did any part time work while he was at uni 2 an employer reference would be good.

An aquaintance of mine went to uni as a mature student and had a (short) prison record in her past. Of course its easy for a woman to cover a gap in her CV by saying she had "caring" duties. In fact no employer was ever interested in anything she had done before getting her degree. She had good references from her tutors and from part time employment she had done while a student.

Dont tell people more than they need to know.

It may depend on who the prospective employer is. For example, if he was applying to the police or any of the forces, their background checks are extremely stringent and I'd be surprised if something like that didn't come up. Similarly if he wanted to do something which involved having to have a Disclosure or PVG certificate.

Agreed Blondiescot. And whoever the prospective employer is, your grandson shouldn’t lie or try to mislead - these things have a habit of coming out. If he was sent down from university I imagine the misbehaviour was pretty serious.

Was he prosecuted? If not, there is unlikely to be a record of the specifics. Under GDPR universities don’t keep more than basic records (basically results). If the police were involved they may have a record, but probably not unless there was a charge.

As you say, there is no need to involve the tutor, who might not even be there now. There is probably no need to involve the first university at all unless specifically asked to - never trouble trouble and all that. If the employer has specifically requested verification of your grandson’s time at both universities you could ask the admin people in the relevant faculty for a confirmation of attendance. In your circumstances, there would be no harm in speaking to someone and explaining - they can probably organise a letter stating the bare facts - Mr X attended Hometown University from A to B and left to continue his studies at the University of Elsewhere, sort of thing.

worriedgrandma

My grandson stupidly got expelled for nonacademic misconduct from uni 1 ...drugs were involved

Then he entered uni 2 and graduated

Now his employer wants to verify his educational history ...
he would not use uni 1's academic reference for obvious reasons as his tutor knows what happened
instead he would use student services/HEDD to verify his attendance

would student services/HEDD tell his employer about the expulsion or would they just say he attended from x to y and got z qualification and no more?

I'd think he should give his employer correct information as to where he attended, when and let the employer have a go. It's never wise, imo, to attempt to hide stupidity - it will surface, and finding a lie is worse.

How long ago did all this happen, worriedgran?

He shouldn’t try to cover up the fact that he has attended two universities. He will be asked why he left the first. You refer to ‘his employer’ - has he already got a job but not made full disclosure of his academic record? Trust is quickly lost if someone is found to have lied, and as I said upthread this must have been a serious business. You’re not sent down for having been found smoking some weed in your room.

Germanshepherdsmum

He shouldn’t try to cover up the fact that he has attended two universities. He will be asked why he left the first. You refer to ‘his employer’ - has he already got a job but not made full disclosure of his academic record? Trust is quickly lost if someone is found to have lied, and as I said upthread this must have been a serious business. You’re not sent down for having been found smoking some weed in your room.

I agree. We often read of cases where people have lied or exaggerated their qualifications or concealed convictions. As they say, the truth will out!!

OK he messed upfirst time round, but the second time round he did everything he should and came out with a good degree.

Young people, I assume he was between 18-21, are renowned for doing really stupid things that they later regret. Better to tell the truth and say that he had learnt his lesson, as his attendance and behaviour at Uni 2 shows. I am sure an employer will see the first problem and the second success as the sign of smeone who is capable of learning from his mistakes and will be a good employee.

Some potential employers have very stringent vetting procedures, which would almost certainly uncover your Grandson's full educational history, including the expulsion details. Even if the employer isn't in this category I would urge that your Grandson gives full disclosure, as these things have a nasty habit of creeping out of the woodwork at a later date, at which time the attempt to cover it up could not just mean summary dismissal, but could even lead to legal action. It really is a no-brainer..

Blondicot from what has been coming to light recently the police seem the least likely to do stringent tests The amount of actual villains who are working for the police is incredulous

BlueBelle

Blondicot from what has been coming to light recently the police seem the least likely to do stringent tests The amount of actual villains who are working for the police is incredulous

I can only speak from personal experience, and that involves Police Scotland. I can assure you that not only was my family member's background very stringently checked out (going back many years), but so were we and his wife's family members too. I was actually very surprised by how exhaustive the checks were. I have no idea whether police forces in the rest of the UK carry out such a thorough investigation into their prospective recruits.

He does not have a criminal record
His employer is a large fund manager so he would not be working with vulnerable people, classified information etc. like he would in the police, school etc.

But he would be working with clients’ money. Yes I know it’s not cash, I know what fund managers do - but trust is important. He should tell the truth before someone else does.

Who would tell his employer if he was expelled though? Would his first uni say something in their reference?

There must be a lot of people who know - his fellow students for instance. The financial sector is tightly knit. My son works in it as do his university friends. I have no idea what the first university might say but as a retired solicitor I can tell you that the law is that in giving a reference one must not lie or mislead. This was obviously a serious incident and they may feel duty bound to disclose it. My suspicion is that it involved dealing and the university decided not to involve the police; it is rare to be sent down other than for academic failure. In my experience honesty is the best policy, though the consequence may be unfortunate. Tell the employer before someone else does. I wouldn’t want to be constantly looking over my shoulder, worrying about meeting someone who knows my background, would you?

Worriedgrandma. I feel you want someone to come on and say he should say nothing because that’s what you want to hear but I doubt they will.

You just never know, when doing stuff like this, that you will get caught out. What about if somebody from Uni 1 came to work there and remembered him? Paths cross, people move and secrets come out.

Primrose53

Worriedgrandma. I feel you want someone to come on and say he should say nothing because that’s what you want to hear but I doubt they will.

You just never know, when doing stuff like this, that you will get caught out. What about if somebody from Uni 1 came to work there and remembered him? Paths cross, people move and secrets come out.

But i am asking if student services from uni 1 may tell his fund manager employer ...

i doubt his uni friends told anyone as he didnt tell his uni friends what happened

I’d be extremely surprised if his uni friends didn’t know what happened!

You can’t seriously believe that nobody knows! If, as I have suggested and you haven’t corrected me, he was dealing drugs that would have involved a network of people. A serious criminal offence and he only has a clean record because he wasn’t reported. Suddenly he’s sent down - a very rare thing - and nobody is missing their supplies, gossiping, speculating? Other people do know, you may depend on that, and as I have just said on your other thread something has caused his employer to investigate his academic history now. He has already deceived them by the calculated way he went about getting a reference to secure the job in the first place, and he is now seeking to perpetuate that deceit. If you were my grandmother or my mother you would be telling me to come clean, not trying to help me to continue my deceit. If he doesn’t tell his employer he is a target for blackmail - have you considered that?

If he were mine I'd tell him to be honest, not lie, pray for mercy.

End of.

worriedgrandma

Primrose53

Worriedgrandma. I feel you want someone to come on and say he should say nothing because that’s what you want to hear but I doubt they will.

You just never know, when doing stuff like this, that you will get caught out. What about if somebody from Uni 1 came to work there and remembered him? Paths cross, people move and secrets come out.

But i am asking if student services from uni 1 may tell his fund manager employer ...

i doubt his uni friends told anyone as he didnt tell his uni friends what happened

It is difficult to be sure, but as someone who worked in a university for over 20 years, and who gave numerous references, I doubt it very much. Unless I could say good things about a student, I would just say that they attended between x and y and leave it at that. Staff don't want to blight the careers of young people, so I would be very surprised if they would say anything. If he only attended for a year, the chances are that the course leader won't even remember him - a lot of students 'go through our hands', and with the best will in the world, we don't remember them all personally.

If there had been a huge incident it will have stuck in people's minds, but someone getting caught with drugs in their room happens a lot, and if the student hadn't made a big impression in other ways, it is quite possible that it won't be remembered. Very many more students take drugs than are caught with them, so it's usually more a case of needing to be seen to be acting, although the fact that it led to expulsion suggests that there was maybe more to it than that?

If it were me, I would base my decision on the nature of the job and the nature of the request. If it's the sort of thing that a whiff of 'scandal' might compromise, or if the employer has asked for a detailed character reference then I might phone the university and speak to the course leader at the time of your grandson's studies, (but doing so will, of course, make remembrance more likely), but if it's an ordinary reference request I wouldn't bother. If the police were involved, I would think again, but look at the likes of Michael Gove, Bill Clinton, Prince Harry and more. They have all admitted taking drugs as students. Boris Johnson and David Cameron were PMs (and George Osbourne the Chancellor) and their behaviour in the Bullingdon Club was less than exemplary. People are allowed to make mistakes as students. Bankers have a reputation (deserved or otherwise) for sniffing coke off banknotes . If a significant number of his colleagues have not done likewise I would eat my hat, and I can't see them being unduly shocked. Try not to worry too much.

Doodledog you sniff it through the note, not off it!

Yes what a sensible post doodledog