To me......being called 'woke' is a compliment

Callistemon21

Then the Romans and their puppet King Herod .....
And the English enslaved by the Romans (They are angels, not Angles).

And, more recently, Britons enslaved in Africa, captured by Barbary pirates

We should be more concerned about learning from history and eradicating modern slavery than nursing past grievances.

But it isn't just about slavery, dreadful as that was. The whole concept of the British Empire harmed so many people.
You could possibly evaluate it through numbers of deaths.
Approx Imill people died in the Irish potato famine
Approx 40million people died because of the agricultural policies in India
Conservative estimates put the number of people killed by the BE at 100million
It's much bigger than slavery.

I think a lot of countries are evaluating if they want King Charles as head of state

Then the Romans and their puppet King Herod .....
And the English enslaved by the Romans (They are angels, not Angles).

And, more recently, Britons enslaved in Africa, captured by Barbary pirates

We should be more concerned about learning from history and eradicating modern slavery than nursing past grievances.

For goodness sake no-one mention that the Egyptian Pharaohs enslaved the entire Hebrew Nation for generations, otherwise it'll all kick off again, and maybe in an even more unpleasant direction. Ooops! I just did mention it, but I think I got way with it... with apologies to Basil..

Lol what is this?

No Glorianny.
So sorry you can't join discussions without becoming personal

ooh there's an echo on GN today!

No Glorianny.
So sorry you can't join discussions without becoming personal.

"it"

I take it that means the Roman Empire and the Vikings are not to be supported as an alternative abuser now. It is so interesting. Had you known your history you could have attributed WW1 to the legacy of the Romans. Or a wider knowledge of things other than history taught in English schools might have led you to use the example of the Ottoman Empire which was much more recent and operated terrible policies.
At the same time as they were building their own Empire the British fought for Greek Independence from the Ottoman Empire.
So sorry you can't join discussions without becoming personal.

maddyone

It’s pointless ladies. Stop worrying about it because there’s no point.

So true.

maddyone

It’s pointless ladies. Stop worrying about it because there’s no point.

You're right, maddy. Pointless and too time consuming to be worth the effort.

Doodledog

You're reading things people aren't saying again, Glorianny.

I always do don't I Doodledog? well according to you. Have you ever considered the problem is yours and not mine?
If you can quote me one example of acceptance of what the British Empire did and an acknowledgement of collective guilt I might reconsider.

It’s pointless ladies. Stop worrying about it because there’s no point.

You're reading things people aren't saying again, Glorianny.

NanaDana

Mollygo.. I'd honestly let it lie. I suppose there's some miniscule progress, as we've now got an admission that it wasn't just the British Empire, as the Americans were at it too, so much so that they both make the worst excesses of the ancient Roman Empire look positively enlightened by comparison.. Really?. So a well-balanced argument, possibly because there's clearly a chip on both shoulders.. White, western exploitation is the beginning, middle and end of the equation, and no other element will be acknowledged. It all then becomes very predictable once you recognise that rather ugly standpoint for exactly what it is. If it wasn't so sadly self-deluding and discriminatory it would be funny...

Actually the only discrimination posted on this thread is the remark about Diane Abbott history
Just because you don't like the concept doesn't mean it is invalid.
It would be nice if someone actually addressed the continuing imperialism. Actually produced a genuine defence of the system or explained why they don't consider the UK collectively responsible .
The argument seems to be- we were poor and it was rich people that did it. White western exploitation is what our society was founded on. You may not like acknowledging it, but no matter what is introduced as a diversion that remains.
And certainly we were not the only peoples doing it. But we were the biggest and the best at it.

You’re right NanaDana.

Mollygo.. I'd honestly let it lie. I suppose there's some miniscule progress, as we've now got an admission that it wasn't just the British Empire, as the Americans were at it too, so much so that they both make the worst excesses of the ancient Roman Empire look positively enlightened by comparison.. Really?. So a well-balanced argument, possibly because there's clearly a chip on both shoulders.. White, western exploitation is the beginning, middle and end of the equation, and no other element will be acknowledged. It all then becomes very predictable once you recognise that rather ugly standpoint for exactly what it is. If it wasn't so sadly self-deluding and discriminatory it would be funny...

Mollygo

^If you can't understand the difference between taxation, the implementation of controls on the supply of a basic agricultural foodstuff and the acquisition of land to grow cash crops which are then exported to the benefit of the occupying power then you totally fail to understand how the British Empire operated^
As far as I’m aware no one has denied that. But for you to deny that the Romans used the same sort of tactics when they were a powerful nation leaves me wondering about your understanding.

Can you explain what crop the Romans planted in Britain, how they exported that and what they manufactured in their own country and sold back to us? I'm quite willing to learn.
I could of course accuse you of whataboutery but you wouldn't do that would you?

Doodledog

Which is fair enough, but another matter entirely.

Of course it isn't responsibility for the actions and the existence of the British Empire now rests with us. To deny that is simply passing the buck. To say the rich should pay but then abdicate responsibility for making them pay is simply washing your hands of the matter.

If you can't understand the difference between taxation, the implementation of controls on the supply of a basic agricultural foodstuff and the acquisition of land to grow cash crops which are then exported to the benefit of the occupying power then you totally fail to understand how the British Empire operated
As far as I’m aware no one has denied that. But for you to deny that the Romans used the same sort of tactics when they were a powerful nation leaves me wondering about your understanding.

Oh dear...

Which is fair enough, but another matter entirely.

JaneJudge

Doodledog

I think the point is that the people being exploited had no say in any of that though. Yes, they had a job because of cotton being imported from slave plantations, or whatever in the other examples, but suggesting that they should be glad of that is insensitive to say the least, and playing Top Trumps with suffering even more so. As I said upthread, the millworkers' grandparents may have farmed common land before the exploiters enclosed it.

All of the examples are of the rich and powerful exploiting the poor and powerless, and creating better opportunities for the descendants of the powerless should, IMO, be paid for by the powerful.

absolutely

That may be true but we do now live in a democracy so responsibility for ensuring someone makes reparation rests on us all.

Doodledog

I think the point is that the people being exploited had no say in any of that though. Yes, they had a job because of cotton being imported from slave plantations, or whatever in the other examples, but suggesting that they should be glad of that is insensitive to say the least, and playing Top Trumps with suffering even more so. As I said upthread, the millworkers' grandparents may have farmed common land before the exploiters enclosed it.

All of the examples are of the rich and powerful exploiting the poor and powerless, and creating better opportunities for the descendants of the powerless should, IMO, be paid for by the powerful.

absolutely