Drag Queens

Funny you should mention "legally allowable" Dickens because that's precisely CabaBabaRave's stance against their critics. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right and I would judge any adult who thought it was appropriate to expose a child to attending any performance where semi naked men grate in front of children.

Beetlejuice

Just found these photos of the CabaBabaRave show which brands itself as a 'little slice of afternoon delight' that intersperses cabaret with 'captivating baby sensory moments' before 'ending in a rave'.

Footage showed one dancer, known as Benloader Circus, dressed in bondage gear while performing acrobatic sequences from straps dangling from the ceiling as babies and their parents watched.

The video also shows another act performing a handstand on a chair while wearing nothing but stilettos and a thong at The Flair Ground, near Waterloo in south-east London.

The organisers defended it, insisting it was carefully curated and suggesting the babies would not understand what was being performed - as they argued it provides a 'fun and welcoming space for parents with young babies'.

Well if the babies wouldn't understand what was being performed, why do that in front of them? I can only think of one reason why.

This is adult entertainment for, well... adults.

I've always felt uncomfortable with the notion that it's OK for children to attend performances where the content - the 'double-entendre', etc, will "go over their heads" and they won't understand what's being said or portrayed.

There's something rather unpleasant and cynical about exposing children to the adult world of sexual innuendo etc... it really just smacks of 'grooming' - so that as early as legally allowable, they can then be part of the 'scene', without them really understanding or grasping the concepts or complexities of adult behaviour.

And I feel the same about beauty pageants for very young girls... three and four year olds in full make up, wearing bra-tops on their flat chests, posing - as they've been taught to do - provocatively with hands on hips.

To me, it is the corruption of children's innocence.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-980626-images.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-778006-fqjwl7gxoaa-swh.jpeg

Just found these photos of the CabaBabaRave show which brands itself as a 'little slice of afternoon delight' that intersperses cabaret with 'captivating baby sensory moments' before 'ending in a rave'.

Footage showed one dancer, known as Benloader Circus, dressed in bondage gear while performing acrobatic sequences from straps dangling from the ceiling as babies and their parents watched.

The video also shows another act performing a handstand on a chair while wearing nothing but stilettos and a thong at The Flair Ground, near Waterloo in south-east London.

The organisers defended it, insisting it was carefully curated and suggesting the babies would not understand what was being performed - as they argued it provides a 'fun and welcoming space for parents with young babies'.

Well if the babies wouldn't understand what was being performed, why do that in front of them? I can only think of one reason why.

I'm pleased to see that, in 2022, a North West Borough Council cancelled all planned drag queen story hours. The irony of Aida H Dee complaining that he was "being bullied and that the decision will cause lasting damage to an ‘already marginalised community" wasn't lost on me. Clearly the parents who were concerned enough to complain that their children could be caused lasting damage were just bullies. Or sensible.

I don't think for a minute that drag=paedophilia, but I do think that anyone who is deliberately dressed in a sexually suggestive manner around children should be asked to justify the need for it.

Beetlejuice they were dragged in somewhere, and I was trying to reassure VS that she was not alone in being upset by pædophiles. Fortunately, as I said, Not all people are pædophiles, whatever name or initial they use or don’t use to classify themselves.

Good points raised TerriBull. Some of the drag queens do actually look like lap dancers and strippers so we're not a million miles away from it happening.

Mollygo, I agree with you too. Come to think of it, I also can't think of anyone who doesn't find paedophiles offensive and upsetting. But they have nothing to do with drag queens to my knowledge.

Good post Terribull I agree with you. Also with the comment Lathyrus made about the book being the important thing for the child not the person reading it to them.

Mooted up thread by a couple of posters introducing new concepts of diversity to the small child is in the interests of inclusion, but surely some concepts would be beyond the confines of the hopefully, happy but limited world they inhabit. Drag queens are no more relevant to a small child than a high court judge in all their regalia, why would they need to be inclusive about a persona that is to all intents and purposes could be considered risque, certainly as depicted in the link up thread. On that basis should they be open to any nightclub act, say lap dancers or male strippers?? In the words of Pink Floyd "leave them kids alone" stop trying to steal their innocence and early childhood years which are all too brief.

VS
pedophiles genuinely are disturbing and upsetting to me
Again I agree with you VS!
Pædophiles are very upsetting to everybody, except perhaps the pædophiles.

We know that Not all people, whatever name or initial they use or don’t use to classify themselves, are pædophiles.

But . . .

Anyone, pædophile or not who entices children to believe that it’s OK to pretend things about sex, whether it’s parodying women, or letting it all hang out like the rainbow monkey, or in the case of pædophiles, talking about our special secret, should not be talked of as being inclusive or celebrating diversity.

Wouldn’t you agree?

It will also blur the lines between who can and can’t be trusted, which is very troubling. Children need to have faith in their parents and carers to tell the truth and keep them safe.

I agree that it is important not to confuse children’s instincts about what is and isn’t ‘normal’, NJA. Calling men ‘she’, having someone with exaggerated female characteristics but a deep voice, an Adam’s apple and hairy arms read to them - those things get in the way of their ability to sense danger (as they can do for adults).

Before someone reminds us all that there are real women with deep voices and hairy arms, I know - but they will also have female shoulders and are unlikely to have a five o’clock shadow too. Even young children, like animals, can tell the difference between men and women. Instincts are there for a reason, and blurring the lines is dangerous. As you say, it can dull their sense of what is and isn’t appropriate.

It's also true that paedophiles put themselves into positions where they can chat to kids. Safeguarding isn't always thorough. AidaHDee, one of the favourites at DQSH raised money for a dear friend's funeral. Turned out the friend was a convicted paedophile. That should have been picked up in the Safeguarding check.
My other concern is the way in which sexuality, if only the swaying and pouting, is being normalised. This makes a child less wary of inappropriate behaviour. This clip illustrates the point. Just look at the children's faces.
twitter.com/therealhebrahim/status/1672957098705973248?t=L6vM3lXBXxTkrwTJq3IUAw&s=19

I don't understand how drag queens can be seen as inclusive. A lot if these who o into school have offensive names, Aida H Dee, Flo Job etc. Their clothes, make-up, strutting all parody women. Not in a comfortable mumsy way, like panto,but very sexually. Young children are naturally wary around oversexualised stuff and we should listen. I wouldn't want my child seeing bondage gear or a stripper in a library or school, why would I want her to see a swaying, pouting parody of a woman?

Lathyrus

And on a different tack.

The majority of drag queens are straight.

What’s my evidence for that? Well none.

It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.

That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

It’s as factual as some of the things we are fed as facts to justify cats or moons or drag or diversity or inclusive.
😬

Beetlejuice

^The majority of drag queens are straight.^
What’s my evidence for that? Well none.
It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.
That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

Seems fair!

Well yes. So often on here we hear that X% of trans children or Y% of transwomen do Z, and this is more of the same. We Don’t Know, and unless there is ever a register of transpeople or drag queens We Never Will.
It just suits the purposes of those who want to make a point to make spurious claims that fit their generalisations.

The majority of drag queens are straight.
What’s my evidence for that? Well none.
It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.
That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

Seems fair!

Sorry - punctuation failure in there, but I hope it makes sense.

Maybe this should be on the 'cats' thread, but I can't find it. I just wonder at what point do adults step up and say 'enough!'?

Storytime is aimed at younger children, but teens need to rebel. They need to separate from adults and identify with one another, and find their 'tribe'. That used to be easy. You became a goth, (or a punk or a hippy), or you rolled up your skirt and shortened your school tie - whatever it was, the point was for adults to disapprove. Sensible adults knew this, and feigned disapproval so their children could feel 'cool' and that they were rebelling, even though they were doing nothing outrageous really.

Now that so many adults seem to want to be friends with children, rather than responsible for them, anything goes. 'Inclusivity' and 'diversity' are the new gods, and nobody is setting boundaries. There is nothing to rebel against any more.

Yes, everyone should be accepted, and only those on the fringes would want to see a return to the sort of blanket disapproval of anything outside of a narrow range of 'acceptability' that was once the norm; but if we have moved from a situation when having pink hair was rebellious to teachers answering to meows from kids who claim to be cats surely things have gone too far?

Why not let teenagers feel that they are cooler than their teachers and parents (or whatever the term for 'cool' is now)? We can't be their friends - they don't want that, and nor should we. Not until they have grown up, that is.

And on a different tack.

The majority of drag queens are straight.

What’s my evidence for that? Well none.

It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.

That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

Coming in late to this discussion.

If it’s story time and getting to enjoy books then it’s totally irrelevant to have a drag Queen reading. It adds nothing to the enjoyment of the book.

So the purpose has to be diversity. In which case the book becomes irrelevant. It’s all about the inclusion.

I dislike one thing parading as another to draw children in. There’s a basic dishonesty there that should be mistrusted.

I wouldn’t object to “Come and spend some time with a drag Queen” in a Hall somewhere. But drag in a Library? I can’t see the relevance.

VioletSky

How can a majority of gay men doing drag be homophobic?

There are straight drag queens but very few

How can a majority of gay men doing drag be homophobic?

WHO said it was a majority?

Drag queens are people. They are not all gay..

For some, it is a performance which is not continued off-stage, for others, it is.

They, like everyone else, have prejudices and biases. Not all drag queens are 'friendly' to the gay community - some of their mimicry and impersonation is of gays as it is of women.

They can also be racist.

What I'm trying to tell you is that drag does not of itself make an individual a beacon of tolerance and inclusivity!

Who asked you to rise VS? It was a general post and since you don’t answer my questions . . .
However I agree it’s gross VS, but people are justifying DQs wanting to parody females in front of young children, rather than to protect children. And now we hear that some of them are sex offenders.
What is more gross than that?

Another merry go round of word twisting and narrative changing I need to get off because pedophiles genuinely are disturbing and upsetting to me and any thoughts otherwise just proves every point I ever make about the threads that attract the people doing it

Not rising to that

Gross