Drag Queens

VioletSky

Drag is performance or art

Trans is gender identity

They are not the same thing

I don’t see any suggestion ‘they are the same thing’. You aren’t alone in seeing complexity. As trans people live amongst us, I find it unlikely that they won’t feature in the drag community.

The issue here is that the majority are unhappy about the promotion of drag performers as readers, over and above lovely people like my sister, a retired teacher who volunteers in schools. She supports children who have identified sen, she and the children enjoy her sessions, teachers value it. Nothing challenging or complex, or needing particular attention to safeguarding
Some may say it’s boring and doesn’t expose the children to diversity to have her, rather than a drag Queen but - I bet teaches children and parents much prefer the securit and experience she brings

Smileless2012

That would be good Beetlejuice. Is there anyone who agrees that trans queens are challenging patriarchy and if so, could you say why?

I believe drag queens (or perhaps some of them) are challenging the status-quo, specifically the accepted nuclear family as a basic social unit. So indirectly one could say they are challenging patriarchy.

My discomfort with drag is the distorted impersonation - sometimes almost grotesque - of women (drag artists used to be known as "female impersonators" back in the day), and of gays. My instinctive feeling is that it is a form of misogyny, in the same way that non-transitioned trans women with male genitalia insisting that they are also women, is another form of misogyny.

It's a gut reaction, I admit, and not the result of any deep thought on the matter.

I am in favour of exploring gender identity and questioning stereotypes. I think many of us might have done that anyway subconsciously when in our youth we rebelled against society's expectations of how we were supposed to behave, as women. But, as a feminist, I do not like the fact that men seem to be in charge of the narrative.

eazybee

This is what it is about.
The idea behind having drag queens read to children in libraries and schools is to promote inclusivity and celebrate diversity in a fun and engaging way. Drag queens are performers who use clothing, makeup, and style to express themselves creatively, and their presence can help challenge traditional gender norms and encourage acceptance. It's not about "conditions" or specific identities, but about teaching kids that everyone should be respected and embraced for who they are.

Very little to do with encouraging children to read.

Yes, it is clear that there is an ulterior motive behind all this. It is not about encouraging reading, and it would be better if the people behind the concept were honest about what their motives actually are. The problem, as we have seen, is that not everyone agrees that drag 'challenges gender norms' at all - some (including me) feel that it reinforces them, but it doesn't seem that this is open to discussion.

But when boys went to school in skirts a year or two ago at one school because it was very hot there was an uproar !!!!
Scratches head in disbelief

Drag is performance or art

Trans is gender identity

They are not the same thing

This is what it is about.
The idea behind having drag queens read to children in libraries and schools is to promote inclusivity and celebrate diversity in a fun and engaging way. Drag queens are performers who use clothing, makeup, and style to express themselves creatively, and their presence can help challenge traditional gender norms and encourage acceptance. It's not about "conditions" or specific identities, but about teaching kids that everyone should be respected and embraced for who they are.

Very little to do with encouraging children to read.

Or children Doodledog; they seem to be a means to an end.

Smileless2012

So if we can see it, why can't they?

Oh, I'm sure they can. It's all about normalising cross-dressing and teaching children that a man can be a woman if he wants to.

I'm not sure what the endgame is in all of this, but whatever it is doesn't have women at its heart.

So if we can see it, why can't they?

Beetlejuice

I think I can see why a larger than life fictional character, such as a clown or a fairy or a cowboy etc might be used to attract children to a library. Their colourful costumes, funny makeup and props would be seen as huge fun to children and it sparks their imagination to explore further. Which I suppose is why I'm struggling with drag queens exhorting children to wink, wiggle their bottoms and sway their hips.

Exactly. Someone dressed as the Gruffalo, or as the Hungry Caterpillar would be entirely appropriate to read a story about those characters. A random drag queen telling a story about hip swaying and bottom wiggling is, IMO, entirely inappropriate.

LRavenscroft

fancythat

Blondiescot

fancythat

God

Whose god? Your god? What about those who have other gods - or those like me, who have none?

When I say God it is only ever the One true God.
The rest are gods. Entirely different.

I think most people, even though the country is moving away from God, do know when people say God, they mean the God of Heaven and earth.
But I will continue to explain if I need to.

God is the God of All. Regardless whether people sadly, may not know Him. Or know of Him. Yet.

Why do you set yourself up as an authority on the one and only
One True God? Why do you use the adverb 'sadly' in referring to the fact other people may not know him? That has nothing to do with this post. What does God have to do with Drag Queen's reading stories to children in a library?

I did not want to further explain, but Blondiescot asked me questions.

I most certainly do not set myself up. Far from it!

I mentioned about Drag Queens in a previous post on here.
I have not posted much on this thread.
Did not want to.

VioletSky

I'm going to keep having my own opinions. If I break guidelines please do report me

Hurray! At last! Something I can agree with you about VS.

I am also going to keep having my own opinions.
Have a nice day.

Katie Price no longer looks like Katie Price.

Beetlejuice

^The drag community is just as varied as we all are on here. Some are great, some are lovely people, others - not so much.^

100% agree with this. Now, all we need to do is weed out the risqué and more adult suitable drag queens from appearing in children’s libraries.

The quoted material is exactly what is used when talking about TW and I agree 100%.

I still don’t get why men feel they need to dress as their idea of ‘women’, whether a parody or not, in order to read to young children. Seems more focussed on their own needs than the needs of children.

Never has there been more pressure on girls to conform to an ideal, it doesn't help when actual women, Katie Price, Kim Kardashian, Kylie Jenner present an unrealistic porn star image of the female form via surgical procedures, now we have drag queens in other words men, copying the very worst of that crop of women who not only damage their own bodies but plant the idea in the susceptible that their own natural body isn't good enough.

I'm going to keep having my own opinions. If I break guidelines please do report me

Posted too soon! I just feel that wiggling one's bottom, winking and swaying their hips, to a malajusted nursery rhyme, is encouraging sexualised behaviour to children too young to know or understand what's being done to them.

I think I can see why a larger than life fictional character, such as a clown or a fairy or a cowboy etc might be used to attract children to a library. Their colourful costumes, funny makeup and props would be seen as huge fun to children and it sparks their imagination to explore further. Which I suppose is why I'm struggling with drag queens exhorting children to wink, wiggle their bottoms and sway their hips.

It was on the news the other day about the alarming increase in the number of girls with eating disorders since Covid, but how much of this increase is due to not being happy/satisfied with their body type, or indeed having the 'wrong' one?

It's not about "conditions" or specific identities, but about teaching kids that everyone should be respected and embraced for who they are

But this just isn’t true this isn’t teaching children accepting of anyone because these people aren’t real (perhaps some didn’t realise this! ) , and THEY are certainly teaching NO respect for women with their massive overplay of make up sexual dressing etc, so are they the role models we want for our next generation
No in my opinion they definitely are not

The drag community is just as varied as we all are on here. Some are great, some are lovely people, others - not so much.

100% agree with this. Now, all we need to do is weed out the risqué and more adult suitable drag queens from appearing in children’s libraries.

Another good post, BJ.

Blondiescot, I take your point that not all drag queens are the same, but what is the point of having them read to children? Not the people under the drag, but as men in women's clothing, wigs and make-up. What does that add to a story, and what advantage is there to it all?

I think it's a deliberate attempt to distract and derail the whole discussion FannyCornforth. If it continues, I'll ask gnhq if they can assist because it's becoming quite disruptive now.

Lily Savage, Danny La Rue and Dame Edna were predominantly aimed at an adult audience, never children and, I think that that's what makes the difference in drag queen acts. Plus, whilst there costumes, hairstyles and make up were exaggerated, they were never crude or offensive. I just feel hugely uneasy with enabling a man to parody the female body in front of children. I really don't want little boys to grow up viewing women in that way or thinking that it's amusing and acceptable to laugh at them. Nor do I want little girls to grow up knowing that a section of society can ridicule and parody them just for laughs. Girls grow up with quite enough pressure on them to conform to specific body types without the additional knowledge that they'll be laughed at if they're big busted or heavy hipped. I'm so astounded that anyone would be comfortable with that.

I think if you watch some of the many programmes about drag, you'd realise that not all drag queens are the same. Many speak about the women in their lives as being real role models and cite many famous women as their inspiration. Many have suffered horrendous bullying throughout their childhoods and credit finding their place within the drag community as literally saving their lives. As I've emphasised several times on this thread, you can't tar them all with the same brush. The drag community is just as varied as we all are on here. Some are great, some are lovely people, others - not so much.

Mollygo

silverberryfern

The idea behind having drag queens read to children in libraries and schools is to promote inclusivity and celebrate diversity in a fun and engaging way.

I really can’t believe I’m reading that.
Where does your inclusivity stop?

Sorry I had to answer the door.
Where does your inclusivity stop? How far would your diversity go?
DQ’s, naturists, mankinis? thong bikinis, flashers in long raincoats? So much diversity out there.