Drag Queens

Sorry Blondiescot I can’t find any evidence of ‘drag’ where males don’t dress as a parody of women.
How is this a 'parody' of a woman?

I don't think Furries are related to drag?

I remember going to gay clubs when I was young and the ladies loo being filled with drag queens with stunning makeup. Some of the nicest people I've ever met but will steal your lipstick.

And of course anyone would need a DBS check to work with children.

I still haven't really understood why it is a problem, because lots of children's tv includes colourful characters, sometimes dressed in drag, like Mr Tumble and I've never heard an outcry before now

FannyCornforth

I’ve just seen the bloke in a furrie suit. Despicable of the Library / Council/ everyone involved.

I also apologise for any upset that I have accidentally caused Doodledog and VS

No need to apologise

Nothing at all wrong with being dyslexic, just didn't understand where that came from

fancythat

God

Whose god? Your god? What about those who have other gods - or those like me, who have none?

The bloke was a furrie

I’ve just seen the bloke in a furrie suit. Despicable of the Library / Council/ everyone involved.

I also apologise for any upset that I have accidentally caused Doodledog and VS

Staceyann

^Obviously it’s everyone’s prerogative to be on this site or not, but I think when I was 48 (almost 30 yrs ago!) , teaching, and with young children at home, it’s the last place I’d have time for, or choose to be^

I was describing myself……..

Why judge anyone on how they choose to spend their free time?

eazybee, Redbridge Council issued this statement

During an event put on at the library today there was a performance by a Carnival Arts Company. Unfortunately one of the animal costumes was inappropriate which we were not aware of at the time of booking. We deeply apologise for the offence caused. This is being looked into.

I reiterate, it was not a drag queen but was an event that was supposed to encourage children to attend the library and promote reading. The photographs provided by Doodledog are however drag queens.

One of many things that apply to me?

I haven't mentioned any personal details on this thread.

This is why it's not ok to drag things people have said about themselves across threads. It makes things personal, they may not be things disclosed to a the individual repeating and people get things wrong or accuse others of things that aren't true.

This is why I've left an entire section of gransnet threads.

Obviously it’s everyone’s prerogative to be on this site or not, but I think when I was 48 (almost 30 yrs ago!) , teaching, and with young children at home, it’s the last place I’d have time for, or choose to be

I was describing myself……..

Returning to the photograph of the 'monkey' surely appearing in such a costume is an offence against public decency, in a public place where children were expected to be present. Was this person really encouraged to take place in an activity to encourage children to read?

VioletSky

FannyCornforth

I didn’t know that you were dyslexic VS.
That must help you with teaching phonics.
I have dyscalculia (only recently discovered) and I realise that it made me a very good teacher of numeracy to children who struggled with it.
I couldn’t cope at all with the bright maths kids though!

???

I'm not dyslexic? Where has this come from?

That might be my mistake, if not. I thought it was one of the many things you have said apply to you - it's not easy to keep track.

Staceyann

Obviously it’s everyone’s prerogative to be on this site or not, but I think when I was 48 (almost 30 yrs ago!) , teaching, and with young children at home, it’s the last place I’d have time for, or choose to be.

I'm not a teacher either?

FannyCornforth

I didn’t know that you were dyslexic VS.
That must help you with teaching phonics.
I have dyscalculia (only recently discovered) and I realise that it made me a very good teacher of numeracy to children who struggled with it.
I couldn’t cope at all with the bright maths kids though!

???

I'm not dyslexic? Where has this come from?

OurKid1

I wonder what the reaction would be if women decided to dress as exaggerated versions of men, with extra large ... well everythings, which is what drag queens do as 'women.'

I think we have more sense.
Besides, apart from adding an exaggerated codpiece, and flaunting an overinflated ego, what could we do?
And would women turn out to see women parodying men or would they stick to indulging fantasies by watching well built males?
As for the reaction? It would be seized upon by the noxious group of TW, and TRA and their fans as an excuse or justification to do more of what they’re doing already.
I can hear the whinging from the above groups already.
Well if they can do that, why shouldn’t we?

I wonder what the reaction would be if women decided to dress as exaggerated versions of men, with extra large ... well everythings, which is what drag queens do as 'women.'

Wyllow3

I am aware that there can sometimes be a tendency to produce and extreme example (like the monkey) to justify, "we shouldn't allow this at all".

That clearly isn't OK.

So you consider yourself the arbiter of what’s OK?
Some sick people obviously thought the monkey was OK. You think it clearly isn't OK.
IMO men parodying women for young children isn’t OK.
Even less OK in the current climate of males pretending to be females.
*Blondiescot mentions
Not all drag is like that. Drag culture covers a very wide spectrum and drag queens (and kings) come in all shapes and sizes. You have some very feminine queens who you'd be hard pressed to tell weren't 'real' women

And we’re immediately back to males pretending to be females.
Sorry Blondiescot I can’t find any evidence of ‘drag’ where males don’t dress as a parody of women.

Drag never used to bother me. Fun if you liked it, Lily Savage, Danny La Rue, Dame Edna etc but now it looks as if it’s insidiously being used to allow males pretending to be ‘women’, whether in flamboyant costumes or not, to promote the idea that men can be women to children too young to understand that it’s a lie.

God

fancythat

VioletSky

I'm only intolerant of intolerance

Wyllow posted an article that explains the difference better than I could

But in general, you know I prefer not to chat to you because of the personal nature of your comments doodledog

There are massive differences between

tolerating sinful behaviour

and not loving someone

The first one we shouldnt do

The second one we should do

Who decides what behaviour is 'sinful'?

Wyllow3

I am aware that there can sometimes be a tendency to produce and extreme example (like the monkey) to justify, "we shouldn't allow this at all".

That clearly isn't OK.

However the mode of arguing a point, by producing extreme examples as proof does make me uneasy, as it "tars all with the same brush".

I am concerned that only showing/alluding to the extreme "example" that brings out the demonstrators outside the library, assuming something dreadful is taking place there, whipping up fear.

*I think what is damaging is the access children have to the extremes - lies, fantasies, hatred, mocking, bullying - sometimes of each other - on social media then in a controlled environment where questions can be asked and appropriately answered*

Wyllow, I have asked what you would consider an acceptable level of drag to be showcased to children, and how that would differ from the Ru Paul type that you say you would not allow.

The monkey is an extreme example, but it still happened, and the ones I posted were, as I say, from the first video that popped up on Google - I have better things to do than scour the Internet for a range of images of drag queens . AKAIK they are not 'extreme examples', and in any case, what is the point of 'dragging up' if it is not extreme? The point of this is not that a transwoman who usually 'passes' as female is reading to children. It is about drag, not transpeople, and drag is a parody of femininity.

It is worrying that this is attracting opposition from extremists such as Turning Point. As many of us have been saying for ages, a side effect of trans extremism is that 'ordinary' transpeople get caught up in the reaction against it, which is neither fair nor desirable.

It's vile isn't it Allsorts.

I’ve just seen the picture, it’s horrifying and would frighten children.

Beatlejuice, did everyone just let that go? I would have gone to the papers asking for the person who sanctioned such a spectacle to be answerable. Someone in that organising body is warped and with an Agenda, to just let that go will lead on to other things. There’s not a lot that shocks me but I would find that offensive and vulgar and complain myself, but to expose that to little children is unforgivable, they obviously dislike children in East London

No one that I can see has adopted "the mode of arguing a point, by producing extreme examples" to tar "all with the same brush" Wyllow.

For me, what's important is that there appears to have been no, or little fore thought with regard to this issue. Much like schools enabling pupils to choose their pronouns and identify as the opposite sex.

Last October I think it was, Doodledog asked where this could lead, could schools end up having to cope with children identifying as animals. She was told by another poster that it was either pathetic or ridiculous, but she was right wasn't she.

I agree with you about what is damaging children in terms of extremes. Lies and fantasy when it comes to schools 'accepting' a pupil who says they're a cat involving both staff and class mates. That 'boys can have periods'; boys can be girls and girls can be boys.

Drag queens mock womanhood. How women look; what they wear in terms of makeup, hair styles and clothes; what they say and how they behave.

The picture of the grotesque 'monkey' outfit raises the question who if anyone, is monitoring this? Who on earth allowed this person dressed as they were, to read to children?

Not much in terms of a controlled environment or an environment where questions asked would be answered appropriately, where anyone arriving in a costume like that would be considered acceptable.

VioletSky

I'm only intolerant of intolerance

Wyllow posted an article that explains the difference better than I could

But in general, you know I prefer not to chat to you because of the personal nature of your comments doodledog

There are massive differences between

tolerating sinful behaviour

and not loving someone

The first one we shouldnt do

The second one we should do