Drag Queens

I would have been against drag queens reading to my children when they were young and in school. Certainly when they were aged 5 years and upwards. Also I have those same feelings for my grand-children.
Schools for many years have been very forward thinking and nothing wrong with that and we are well aware that in this day and age we are all well aware of the rights of inclusivity of LGBT+Q which is a progression of the times.
I do not see any need for Drag Queens to be around our young children, what is wrong with the every day use of the volunteer reading people that go in and help out with children learning to read?
I think that every one that assists and helps out with children be it in schools or libraries or wherever should be checked and carefully vetted before they can go near the children.
I have noticed that a poster said something about someone saying a drag queen could be a paedophile . I would just point out something that is truthful and was brought to the attention of parents at a school I know of. A teacher in the school was of a high position unfortunately in her spare time she met an ex offender who was on the sex register and had been in prison for offences against children.
The teacher never brought this offender into the school and no children ever came to harm because of her affair although witnesses said he had picked her up from school in his car several times. Everything came to light and she lost her job, quite rightly so I would say.
I have always been cautious about my children and the grand-children and much of these forward thinking ideas do not sit well with me.

Smileless2012

PLEASE tell me that this isn't true Beetlejuice, it's gross.

Oh it is true. That thing was actually on display at the library in question.

I am aware that there can sometimes be a tendency to produce and extreme example (like the monkey) to justify, "we shouldn't allow this at all".

That clearly isn't OK.

However the mode of arguing a point, by producing extreme examples as proof does make me uneasy, as it "tars all with the same brush".

I am concerned that only showing/alluding to the extreme "example" that brings out the demonstrators outside the library, assuming something dreadful is taking place there, whipping up fear.

I think what is damaging is the access children have to the extremes - lies, fantasies, hatred, mocking, bullying - sometimes of each other - on social media then in a controlled environment where questions can be asked and appropriately answered

BlueBelle

Willow there’s a vast difference between girls dressed as men or vice versa in say a Shakespearian play or even the original type of dame in a panto these drag artists have huge eyelashes huge lips huge falling out bosoms and bums usually very sexualised clothing and demolish any type of genuine acting They are taking the p out of womanhood and they are taking the p out of genuine trans women

Who is the head master or mistress in these schools because basically I wouldn’t want them near my children

Not all drag is like that. Drag culture covers a very wide spectrum and drag queens (and kings) come in all shapes and sizes. You have some very feminine queens who you'd be hard pressed to tell weren't 'real' women, 'look' queens who are all about the fashion, right up to the more gothic and 'shock' queens.

Beetlejuice

Quite agree with you regarding the demonstrators Wyllow3, violence and anger has no place where children are. However, I have some empathy with the parents of the children here. In one such demonstration, parents were, quite rightly in my opinion, outraged when a man dressed in a monkey outfit, complete with exposed buttocks and a 12" dildo, arrived at Goodmayes Library in Redbridge, East London, to read to children in a story hour. Now who, in the name of God ever thought that that was appropriate? If your child had been exposed to that, wouldn't you be angry and want to know who was responsible for it?

Some wonder why children are in Christian schools?

That's good to know Doodledog just in case there are accusations being deliberately selective.

CraftyGranny

How long will it be before paedophiles are reading stories to children. How well are these drag queens vetted to be near children?

Why are you bringing up paedophiles in a thread about drag queens?

When people on here say they help out in schools you have never said that you hope they are properly vetted, disgusting that you are insinuating there is more chance that a drag queen could be a paedophile.

Smileless2012

Well they're not 'dressed up women' that's for sure Doodledog.

No, and the shots were taken from the first video on YouTube when I Googled 'drag queen reading hour', so they weren't selectively chosen.

It's true I'm afraid. It's not drag but it illustrates how adults can, knowingly or not, sexualise their dressing up costumes for children. Redbridge Council thought that it was a good idea to introduce it as a way to encourage children to read.

Well they're not 'dressed up women' that's for sure Doodledog.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-164141-screenshot-2023-06-26-at-13-02-32.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202306/medium-11603-screenshot-2023-06-26-at-13-02-57.png

Agreed on all counts, BeetleJuice. I was about to say the same thing, and ask whether these people are really 'dressed up women' or parodies of femininity?

PLEASE tell me that this isn't true Beetlejuice, it's gross.

Quite agree with you regarding the demonstrators Wyllow3, violence and anger has no place where children are. However, I have some empathy with the parents of the children here. In one such demonstration, parents were, quite rightly in my opinion, outraged when a man dressed in a monkey outfit, complete with exposed buttocks and a 12" dildo, arrived at Goodmayes Library in Redbridge, East London, to read to children in a story hour. Now who, in the name of God ever thought that that was appropriate? If your child had been exposed to that, wouldn't you be angry and want to know who was responsible for it?

"Where I would have drawn the line was on the content of the story and on the attire the 'reader' was wearing.

I think that these are key issues. How it's done, where it's done and what content is used are vitally important."

Yes, absolutely.

As in moderation in all things, and that includes those who demonstrate outside libraries, far more likely to frighten the kids than a very "dressed up" woman or man dressed in clothes of that of the other sex.

LRavenscroft @ 08.46, I completely agree with your post, you've raised some important questions there.

Where I would have drawn the line was on the content of the story and on the attire the 'reader' was wearing.

I think that these are key issues. How it's done, where it's done and what content is used are vitally important.

The other question that drag queens reading stories to young children is what message does that send to little children? Quite apart from the overly sexualised nursery rhymes, actions and innuendo, do those impressionable little boys sit, watch and listen and learn that it's perfectly fine to laugh at, mimic and parody women? To jeer at their large breasts, their wide hips, big hair and over the top make up? And what about the little girls? Aren't they growing up acknowledging, from a very early age, that women can be laughed at and made fun of and thats perfectlyfine? In other words, do drag queens send out the message that women are ridiculous figures of fun; not people to be respected?
I personally would have no problem with a trans woman reading to children, whether in a classroom or library setting. My problem is with drag queens and their inappropriate reading matter that I referred to earlier.

It’s normalising the not normal. (Note I did not say abnormal. It isn’t normal for either men or women to dress up in flamboyant costumes, to read to children. It isn’t normal for drag queens to be in costume outside performance times. It isn’t normal for men to feel they have to dress up as a parody of women in order to read to children.
This will be supported by those who talk about claiming to be a cat being allowed because it’s your authentic self. I’m sure I read not too long ago about a poster being concerned about who was teaching her children. If TAs are endorsing this behaviour and thus implying they would be happy to see it in their school, I’m very concerned.

oops posted too soon

and are argumentative and have the potential to derail the discussion or even close it down, which is probably whey they're made.

No one's demonising drag queens here, simply questioning the appropriateness of them participating in story time.

Well, when I opened this thread this morning I certainly wasn't expecting to see what it's about and was rather taken aback TBH, but with so much becoming 'acceptable' atm I suppose I shouldn't have been.

Thanks to all who've posted informative links especially
Chad Green's point of view which is both measured and invaluable as it comes from a lived experience that I think not many, if any of us have shared.

What's the point? What's to be gained by children being read stories by a drag queen? I'd be interested to see answers to those questions and if anyone can enlighten me to the rightness of children singing along to 'If you're a drag queen and you know it .........'. I think I've got that right but it was a few pages ago. Apologies if I've misremembered.

You're right of course Wyllow that everyone working with children has to be vetted and what seems to be needed now is also vetting what that work entails.

I shared and voiced my own concerns about mothers taking babies to hen and stag does BlueBelle and wonder when or if the current mentality of 'I can do a thing so will do it, even if I shouldn't' will ever end.

I thought your reference to blackface was spot on Doodledog. It was stopped because is was a parody of those being represented and rightly so. I'm not suggesting that panto dames and drag queens should be banned. One of the best night's out I ever had was at a drag club in Leeds, and where would the traditional pantomime be without the outlandish and central dame?

But drag queens story telling to children!!! No.
Accusations of 'demonising' lend nothing to the discussion

I have met drag queens, they are funny, can be crude and the one I met at my work in the pub many years ago was stunning, he went on to perform in a pub setting to a audience at the time of mainly women.
In the setting I have described above I am fine with it but reading to small children is not on and is unnecessary. The hips example up post is horrible. Horses for courses, in the entertainment business fine, reading to young children no. I would not have let my young child go as in my opinion it is not age appropriate.

No one is suggesting they will harm the children physically Wyllow but mentally it’s ridiculous to muddle children’s minds up with overtly sexual beings of any persuasion, not only damaging but unnecessary.
I said the same thing about the mothers that took they babies to day time hen and stag dos, it’s both unnecessary and totally inappropriate and yes I think if I remember rightly I got shot down in flames from VS who said didn’t I ever take my children to a circus ( not panto that time)
If you don’t understand or agree with this then we ll have to stay at opposite ends of the spectrum

CraftyGranny

How long will it be before paedophiles are reading stories to children. How well are these drag queens vetted to be near children?

This is exactly where thinking starts running into fear and banning "everything" thats not "normal".

All people who work with children have to be vetted. Are we forgetting this? the safeguarding act of 2006 insists.

www.xperthr.co.uk/legal-timetable/centralised-vetting-system-for-people-working-with-children/81839/

Thank you Sparklefizz for bringing up this topic for discussion. I’m glad my DGSs go/went to a Christian School so that they aren’t introduced too early to topics and people they can’t properly understand.

Drag Queens have a place in society but not with young children. Yes I hope they have had a DBS check.

I wonder when VS returns from work. Watch out for some fireworks 💥

I am neither transphobic nor homophobic. everything has its place.

Leave our kids alone, childhood is short enough as it is.

How long will it be before paedophiles are reading stories to children. How well are these drag queens vetted to be near children?