Train fares, should they be subsidised?

A lot of people travelling by train are high-earning commuters, as I was. My train fares were very expensive but why should others subsidise them?

I've just done a quick trsinline search and its coming up less than half of your quote ...you don't pay for under 5s ....and 8f you have an older person's railcard it would be cheaper still

Ps....assuming you are an 'older person's! ....I'm 58 and have an 8 year old GD so you could well be same

I think that all public transport should be subsidised. So many lives are limited by an inability to get around easily and affordably, yet if buses and trains were cheaper, cleaner, safer and more reliable more people would use them, and the roads would be less congested. Obviously this would result in cleaner air, and other effects would be that loneliness would be reduced and high streets might get a boost.

I don’t drive, and am very aware of how difficult it is to get to nearby towns on public transport. Here there is a regular (but expensive) bus to the city centre, but to get to other local towns you have to go into the city and out again, which takes ages and costs a fortune. People don’t bother, on the whole.

In my hometown there are many new estates on the outskirts (in common with many other areas), and many are more than a walk away from the facilities in the centre. People drive in, clogging the car parks and increasing pollution. A decent bus service would mean that residents of the estates could more easily get to things like toddler groups, evening classes, activities and so on, which would make them more viable and improve everyone’s lives.

My husband is happy to drive me, but it must be very difficult for those without transport to get to medical appointments etc, as facilities are so centralised these days. Those who don’t qualify for free hospital transport have to wait around for buses and spend a lot on fares. When people are sick they could do without it, and it also means making all sorts of complicated arrangements to cover other responsibilities while they are doing so.

They are just a few examples, but a proper public transport system that joins up facilities and makes it possible for people to get involved in their communities would be such an asset to the country, and if everything must come down to cost, it would also save money on mental health and improve local economies.

I'm inclined to agree with your comments regarding Net Zero OP, fares aren't cheap and rail travel isn't terribly viable with all the strikes at the moment, so yes cheaper fares and reliable service would get more people off the road I'm sure. I always thought the French trains were pretty good and cheaper when I was there, don't know if that is still the case. They are shockingly expensive here, my son lives 50 miles out from London and goes into the office twice a week, he pays about £80 or so for a one day commute into London, he actually welcomes going into the office though so kind of accepts that working from home several days a week offsets other expenses he would have if he were doing it 5 days a week. He and girlfriend both had annual season tickets by way of interest free loan from their company pre Covid, but of course now, like many their working week is split between office and home that isn't a viable option. The rail companies don't seem to have come up with anything more attractive to offer commuters who no longer do the standard week that was. I haven't been up to town since Covid and we moved further away during that time so no longer eligible for the Over 60 Travel Pass which we had for our London trips, dread to think what we'd have to pay now

Public transport should be improved and subsidised. It costs more to go by train to Edinburgh or London from Manchester than it does to fly

Public transport is subsidised to a certain extent. Some rural and local bus services would not be viable without subsidies. Older people have free bus passes in England. There are many different dicounted tickets for trains, especially during school holidays. There are older people discounts ,two together, family travel. Split ticketing can also give savings. However, if you are not familiar with train travel these options can be very confusing and unfortunately there is a movement now to close all ticket offices. Older Londeners get free travel, school age children get discounted or free travel. The costs of running and upkeep of cars are high. I think if more people would use public transport more frequently then lower prices could be a consideration.

I haven’t read the whole thread so what I am adding may not be original.
Yes
Not only should it be possible to travel by train for less than the cost of flying, I should be actively encouraged as a general principle.
Time - Money
You should be able to save on one at the expense of the other if you so choose.
I also think the threatened withdrawal of ticket offices is relevant here. When I took my GS (13) to London last week I found that by not taking advantage of my Senior Railcard (1/3 off a £20 fare) I could take him for £1 . Nowhere did the machine offer this helpful advice. But it should not need complicated fare systems to enable savings - such as buying tickets for long journeys in stages, which is I understand a recognised way of saving if you can navigate the system. Remember when we used to save Persil vouchers towards train fares? Or Awaydays for Pensioners which used spare capacity during off peak times and benefited families (grannies especially) all over the country. Nobody gives a thought to that now.
Furthermore, if the money which has already been spent and is committed to that vast white elephant HS2 had been spent on a decent dedicated freight railway system, thus freeing up the passenger lines, in the way the German system does, we would all benefit with fewer juggernauts on our motorways, possibly better road surfaces, less pollution and a railway system which is fit for purpose. (And don’t get me started on station parking, cost or availability!)

Off peak day returns Whitchurch to Shrewsbury or Crewe are about £10.
Why not look at services on the mainline that don't involve changes.

Here is a direct line map. No idea if there is a second line at Whitchurch or not.

Re the original question, yes trains should be subsidised more. I believe they already are.

I don't know the statistics but thought most advanced countries subsidise rail travel as it's seen as vital infrastructure, encourages mobility, connects regions etc., and so beneficial to overall productivity.

People complain about HS2. A lot.

Think I am a bit confused by this thread.

For me andd people living rural, it is miles of car journey before even getting to a train station.

We both went by train to Glasgow recently using our Saltire card it was under £10 return for both.A couple on the train were told about a childrens scheme where its anywhere for £1 over the summer ,she was delighted she had 3 kids with her all about 10 -14.We still have ticket collectors on the train and although we dont use it often we've been very happy with the service and the cleanliness of the trains

fancythat

People complain about HS2. A lot.

Think I am a bit confused by this thread.

For me andd people living rural, it is miles of car journey before even getting to a train station.

HS2 is a different argument. This is about making existing travel easier and cheaper, and maybe reopening more local lines.

You are right that it should be easier to get to stations, and improving bus services would help with that. As things stand, services are often so bad that anyone who can drive does so, which reduces the viability of routes, which in turn limits the options of those who don't (or don't want to) drive.

There are also huge geographical inequalities. As has been said, in London, people over 60 get free travel, and travel is subsidised anyway for younger people. Elsewhere, bus passes are not available to anyone under pension age, and even that is under review. Rural areas often have no services at all, and people struggle to get to doctors, libraries, shops etc, and to visit friends and family.

Yes, there are some journeys that can be done reasonably cheaply with the use of rail cards and judicious choices of tickets, but the days of being able to decide to go somewhere and be able to do it on public transport are long gone. When I see episodes of Miss Marple or Poirot, I always think that things have gone backwards since every village had a railway station that would take you to somewhere that would link to where you wanted to be, even if you did stand a good chance of being murdered when you got there, if not on the train itself.

Train fares are too complicated and confusing. Simplification would help.

Agreed Pittcity. Last week we travelled by train we three others. Only the two of us had senior railcards so I asked for two seniors and three adult returns. The very knowledgeable lady at the ticket office who has worked there for years explained that if all five were travelling together we all get a third off. How would I have known that had she not been there?

When the railways were allowed by Act of Parliament one of the conditions was that cheap travel should be provided for the working class. It led to the development of new holiday towns such as Blackpool and Whitley Bay and the holiday week for factory workers. I fail to understand why in the modern era we have an expensive and almost unusable railway network. Public transport should be available to the vast majority of people. We need a joined up public transport system where trains and buses link up and are affordable.

Yes, we do have a car but I use public transport as often as is possible. It’s crazy that a rail journey costs more than a plane flight!

Trains may be on strike today anyway. I know they are in some areas.

I couldn't agree more, ayse.

When ticket offices go it will be even worse. A few years ago I was going on a weekend away with a friend who was getting on the train a few stops after me. It was impossible to book seats together online, but we were able to do it in the ticket office.

I am going away in August, and the ticket office found me seats from A to C via Station B, and advised me to buy separate tickets (ie A-B and then B-C) even though they are for the same seat and I'm not getting off, as it saved a chunk of money. I suspect that things like this, and the discount for group travellers mentioned by Greenfinch will go by the board with the demise of ticket offices, and they could make the difference between people deciding to travel or not.

Doodle dog 👍

I’ve also had problems when trying to get a refund after buying online! The more stuff that is online only, the worse any customer service becomes. Trying to get any sense out of online “help”/chat bot never works. Even when you manage to find a customer service line it seems to take hours to answer. THEN they argue about why you didn’t or could n’t do it online.

DD2 works in software development and is of the opinion that many companies do not wish to deal with customer complaints. I agree with her.

Interesting ayse as having bought a ticket from a ticket office I had no trouble claiming a refund from Cross Country when my return train from Bournemouth was cancelled. I am told a 100% refund of the return journey (the next train was an hour later)will be in my bank account within ten days. Although the ticket was bought from an office the claim was online and very simple( although I had to get help from a family member to attach a photo of the ticket). Another reason for using a ticket office.

Trains and all essential utilities should never be privatised.

Plan ahead to get cheap fares, get travel cards for Pensionners, be prepared to travel a bit later to get better fare, etc.

It is a political choice, like so many. Some countries choose to keep in public ownership, and to subsidise in so many ways- bravo.

My DH has a 'disabled' railcard and what we hadn't realised is that if someone (Me!) travelled with him, then my fare is also at the reduced rate. We only found out because the man in the ticket office informed us!

The taxpayers alliance estimates £1300 cost per taxpayer for railway subsidies 2023.
Just saying….

All public transport free in Luxembourg.