What is a lesbian?

Perhaps that's why she's interesting. She looks at things and sometimes changes her mind.

Is that another dig? Sorry if not, but it's hard to tell when they come so thick and fast.

I have never seen IW's mind change. From the ill-fated appearance on CBB (which was a very good series where all aspects of sexuality and gender were highlighted, and the winner was Courtney Act, a level headed and intelligent Australian drag queen) to the insistence on using women's loos 'to make a point' even when unisex/gender-neutral ones were available. IW is a professional transwoman who passes up no opportunity to push the trans agenda, and shows deeply misogynistic views, eg saying I am more of a woman then the one on the left (when 'the one on the left' was a butch lesbian and born female).

Those who are hailing IW as the voice of the trans movement, however, might want to read this article in the Pink News where she says things about self-ID that they might not approve of. IW will say anything to get publicity to keep IW 'relevant', or in the news, anyway.

Why don't you give Debbie Hayton a look too Vsky? All in the name of education of course.

You can never have enough information about any subject imv.

debbiehayton.com

I don't know who India Willoughby is so I looked her up

I've seen her on TV before and didn't know she was trans

I will give her a follow and have a look

Oh no it's not that. I followed India on Twitter for a while, but they were just too incoherent for me. And their view of lesbians was so odd it became impossible to keep following.

Galaxy

They had charitable status.
India Willoughby 5 minutes ago was arguing very clearly that transwomen should not be in female sport, they now completely argue the opposite. India is very inconsistent, and my concerns over their racist comments and Benny Hill like sexism remain.

Correction -to retain charity status.

Perhaps that's why she's interesting. She looks at things and sometimes changes her mind.

They had charitable status.
India Willoughby 5 minutes ago was arguing very clearly that transwomen should not be in female sport, they now completely argue the opposite. India is very inconsistent, and my concerns over their racist comments and Benny Hill like sexism remain.

If, not of

Smileless2012

That doesn't answer my question VS I am asking how I can obtain agreement from all who might attend because you say, you are "happy for any group to have the event all their members agree they want to have". How do I get their agreement?

Of they agree they will attend

Of they don't they won't

I think you have misunderstood what I meant

Rosie51

Glorianny how about a speed dating event for "female lesbians", is that clear enough or are the transwomen going to claim to be female? We know India Willoughby, who you quoted in your justification for calling LGB alliance a hate group, does assert that they now have female chromosomes from taking oestrogen.......
Incidentally I don't remember you addressing the point raised by someone up thread (sorry I can't remember who it was) that the Charity Commission upheld LGB alliance's charity status. Are you accusing them of endorsing a hate group?

Any Speed dating event can be advertised as its organiser wishes as long as it is in line with legal provision

I think India Willoughby is interesting.
She said this
WILLOUGHBY believes the backlash was highly co-ordinated and sophisticated. She pointed to a well-documented meeting in America in October 2017 when the Family Research Council – labelled an “anti-LGBT hate group” – held its annual Values Voter Summit. Trump spoke, along with his far-right adviser Steve Bannon. One presentation discussed the LGBT community and “divide and conquer” tactics.

Speaker Meg Kilgannon said: “For all its recent success, the LGBT alliance is actually fragile and the trans activists need the gay rights movement to help legitimise them.” She went on: “Trans and gender identity are a tough sell, so focus on gender identity to divide and conquer.” For many people, Kilgannon claimed, “gender identity on its own is just a bridge too far. If we separate the T from the alphabet soup we’ll have more success.”

You might also like her views on prisons
When it comes to women’s safety, Willoughby says: “The biggest problem is men, but I’m not going to say all men are dangerous.” On the Bryson case, she says no convicted rapist should ever serve time in women’s prisons. Rules should prevent sex offenders being sent to women’s prisons

As for the Charity Commision they asked thatLGB Alliance revise some of its social media activity
During the course of the registration case, the Commission noted some evidence of social media activity (information that was posted or re-posted on social media) by LGB Alliance and considered that some of the language used may be regarded as inflammatory and offensive. In addition, it was not immediately obvious how some of these postings furthered any of the LGB Alliance’s purposes. The Commission was concerned that, although it promoted the rights of some groups, the activity appeared to involve, at times, demeaning or denigrating the rights (recognised by law) of others.

38.The Commission raised these concerns with LGB Alliance and in response LGB Alliance reviewed and revised its social media policy. LGB Alliance stated that it intended to adopt a less defensive and confrontational approach to social media engagement

So possibly what was becoming a hate group has modified its stance to achieve charity status

The lesbians I know are organising privately, its not as if gay people havent years and years experience of this nonsense.

That doesn't answer my question VS I am asking how I can obtain agreement from all who might attend because you say, you are "happy for any group to have the event all their members agree they want to have". How do I get their agreement?

The same way A trans event might say "we welcome trans, non binary people and their allies" which we know from this thread, they do.... And it is all in line with the equality act

You plan the event you want to have in line with the equality act and make sure that information is available in the advertising for it

Hypothetically, I am organising a speed dating event for lesbians. I don't know who will attend. I don't have contact details for everyone who may so how can I obtain agreement from all who may attend that the event is to be as advertised, for lesbians and trans women are not to be admitted?

You do not get to dictate how I answer questions or how I further add to discussion when doing so Mollygo

I believe that it is possible to legally change gender because it is

I believe gender dysphoria is real

I believe there is a genetic link to gender dysphoria and I know that sex has never been as black an white as male and female

I am open minded to the discovery that scientists have discovered differences written into the genes of trans people and the idea that the wrong hormones could have been released during stages of fetal development

I will have a more definitive answer when the science has one

No, you’ve qualified it again. You add words to the question that is not being asked instead of answering yes or no.
Do you believe anyone can change sex?

VioletSky

No I can't

The event organisers make clear their expectations and accept that some people won't attend and that the ones that do are happy with the event as it is and agree with it being run that way

I expect that may not mean some of them wouldn't go to events that do include trans women just that they are happy that some events are run by people with protected beliefs...

What's the problem?

Another

VioletSky

I am happy for any group to have the event all their members agree they want to have, I am happy that beliefs are protected and they have every right to hold the event they want under the guidance of the equality act

I thought you were too?

If myself and 3 friends all agree we want to go to eat steak, we eat steak

If some of us want to eat steak and some of us want to eat chicken then we go somewhere that serves both and e don't judge each others choices...

Simple

I think there is more

Wait, because I have in fact already answered this I will just go back and quote one of the times I did so you can see that I do in fact answer

The whole idea of the OP was should lesbians have a right to a solely female event if that is what they have asked for?

Not whether new TW, or those who have been TW for decades or those feel they lesbians, should be allowed to attend when it has been requested that they do not.
Not whether some lesbians are happy to have a relationship with a TW-which they’re entitled to do as long as they don’t force others to accept that as a lesbian relationship.

The whole idea of the OP was should lesbians have a right to a solely female event if that is what they have asked for?

VS do they have that right?

I am ok with that

VioletSky

Mollygo of you ever change the way you speak to me in general I would probably have time for you

VS if you ever answered even my basic questions I’d probably have more respect for you.

Glorianny how about a speed dating event for "female lesbians", is that clear enough or are the transwomen going to claim to be female? We know India Willoughby, who you quoted in your justification for calling LGB alliance a hate group, does assert that they now have female chromosomes from taking oestrogen.......
Incidentally I don't remember you addressing the point raised by someone up thread (sorry I can't remember who it was) that the Charity Commission upheld LGB alliance's charity status. Are you accusing them of endorsing a hate group?

I think that lesbians are entitled to spaces without men.

Galaxy

I am certainly not doing that I am applying my reasoning to men, nothing at all to do with their trans status. Men with ginger hair should not be so entitled as to insert themselves in womens spaces, the same applies to any man.

As some lesbians think transwomen are women. then, there was no reason to deny access to transwomen in particular to a lesbian event?
Or are you saying all lesbians must think that transwomen are men?