What is a lesbian?

I am certainly not doing that I am applying my reasoning to men, nothing at all to do with their trans status. Men with ginger hair should not be so entitled as to insert themselves in womens spaces, the same applies to any man.

OK here's some reasoned argument
Some lesbians believe transwomen are women and choose to have relationships with them. They therefore remain lesbians. And as both parties believe they are women both parties are lesbians.
A lesbian speed dating event can exclude transwomen, but should not do so on the grounds of unacceptable portrayals of transwomen, which are transphobic. Sufficient to say there is a demand for such an event.
Whatever your beliefs or opinions on the "reality" of sex, as distinct from gender one person has no right to deny any other person the right to designate their own sexuality. You don't have to believe it. You do have to accept it.
Perpetually posting descriptions of someone which are graphic and detailed and linking that person and their behaviour to transpeople is transphobic. The inference is that all transwomen behave like this. It is using stereotypes to denigrate a community, a process which has always been used and which is widely condemned when applied to other minorities.

Mollygo of you ever change the way you speak to me in general I would probably have time for you

Glorianny

Doodledog your long previous post with many quotes which I won't bother to reproduce accused me of shifting and changing my mind. That is a process I freely and honestly own up to. I'm by no means knowledgeable about all the niceties of discrimination against minorities, and sometimes, when I find out more, my view shifts and changes. If it bothers you I'm sorry. I think it's important to learn as much as it is possible about others' views and it helps with inclusion.
Closed minds of course never change.

That seemed to start as an apology, or at least show an unusual level of humility, but then it changed to a snide dig. Why?

It doesn't 'bother me' that you have changed your mind. I change mine often. Please don't twist what I have said to make it look as though any problems we have had on this thread is because of my intransigence - that is far from the case.

What bothers me is that you are bombastic and condescending to people and accuse us of twisting things, of 'wriggling' and misrepresenting things, and you delight in 'gotcha's. You have called me 'pathetic' on this very thread (and on many others) and have suggested that I owe you an apology for saying something that was wrong all along, for instance.

I have repeatedly tried to point out (over many threads) that much of what you say has no logic, and to expose your digs at people for what they are, to the point where I bore myself sometimes - it is so frustrating to deal with the 'some people' and the ill-concealed contempt in statements such as 'closed minds, of course, never change'.

My mind does change, when persuaded by respectful and reasoned argument. Like many, however, I tend to dig in my heels when insulted and treated as though I am a bigot who is incapable of original thought.

VioletSky

This isn't a questionnaire

It is a discussion, not a tick box exercise

When you can’t answer . . . Come up with another excuse. 🤣🤣

Doodledog your long previous post with many quotes which I won't bother to reproduce accused me of shifting and changing my mind. That is a process I freely and honestly own up to. I'm by no means knowledgeable about all the niceties of discrimination against minorities, and sometimes, when I find out more, my view shifts and changes. If it bothers you I'm sorry. I think it's important to learn as much as it is possible about others' views and it helps with inclusion.
Closed minds of course never change.

Look I don't really want to get into this on the threads but, people keep pushing. I wasn't replying to them on this thread and I don't engage them on other threads, it is the other way around. I've had some quite severe things said to me that were hurtful

I may get passionate about things or even angry and sometimes sarcastic but I am not a bully and I don't go after people on a personal level.

Obviously they perceived things differently but fundamentally, I can't admit to things I didn't do or say as much as I am uncomfortable that someone would make that statement

Hopefully some time to cool down is all that is needed and they will come back

Can we move on now? I haven't got anything else to add

VioletSky

I haven't bullied anyone and I would suggest saying so is against guidelines. I am still here, so are my comments and I haven't said what I was accused of

Feel free to report me VS I just repeated what Lathyrus said, she felt bullied and targeted by you and was leaving GN as a result. If someone posted that about me I'd be really upset and would seek to find a solution, but of course you are free to discount Lathyrus's feelings and just ignore her.

This isn't a questionnaire

It is a discussion, not a tick box exercise

You don’t answer yes or no and you haven’t again, probably because you can’t. Do let me know where you’ve answered with a simple yes or no to questions like I just asked.

I can't see the point of answering the same questions again, maybe re read?

If I didn't say something, I didn't say it

I don't know what I am supposed to say

VioletSky

I haven't bullied anyone and I would suggest saying so is against guidelines. I am still here, so are my comments and I haven't said what I was accused of

Only evidenced by your opinion VS. Lathyrus evidently feels differently. The victims’ point of view often differs from the perpetrator.

I’m asking simple questions all related to the OP. They only require one word answers.
Do you VS (or anyone else) believe that all lesbians should accept that males can go into places where they have been expressly asked not to attend as in the OP.
Do you VS, believe people can change sex?
Do you VS accept all male lies including males claiming to be lesbian when lesbian means AHF sexually attracted only to other AHF.

I have a bet . . .

VioletSky

No I can't

The event organisers make clear their expectations and accept that some people won't attend and that the ones that do are happy with the event as it is and agree with it being run that way

I expect that may not mean some of them wouldn't go to events that do include trans women just that they are happy that some events are run by people with protected beliefs...

What's the problem?

.

It's ridiculous to say that all lesbians attending an event must agree on it being single-sex in order for it to be so.
It's not an exclusive club with voting. It's just a dating night which any lesbian can attend.

The event organiser can make the decision on the event being female-only (as she has done) and convey it to the public who may want to attend.

If the word 'lesbian' can include male people, what is the word for a female person who is sexually attracted only to other female people?

I haven't bullied anyone and I would suggest saying so is against guidelines. I am still here, so are my comments and I haven't said what I was accused of

As Doodledog reminded you VioletSky, Lathyrus felt so bullied and harmed by you that she's left GN. Where is your do no harm there? I've not seen any post from you apologising or attempting to undo that harm.

Lathyrus if you're reading this, please come back.

Ok

I honestly give up.

No I can't

The event organisers make clear their expectations and accept that some people won't attend and that the ones that do are happy with the event as it is and agree with it being run that way

I expect that may not mean some of them wouldn't go to events that do include trans women just that they are happy that some events are run by people with protected beliefs...

What's the problem?

VioletSky

But some lesbians believe trans women are women

And if a group of lesbians wants to exclude trans women from an event

1 they all need to agree and all share the same belief

2 they should do so in line with the equality act

The equality act is there to protect you, me and any other person whatever their demographic

Either you want the act that protects your belief and you agree to others having different views and needs to you being covered by it or you are dictating who you feel it should apply to and treating life as hierarchy with yourself at the top.... no one has that right

What about it?

What can I say? You are claiming (1 and 2 above) that if lesbians want to exclude transwomen from an event they have to agree and share the same belief, and do so in line with the EA.

Then in your next post you say that you argue that lesbians all have different views?

Can't you see the contradiction?

I am happy for any group to have the event all their members agree they want to have, I am happy that beliefs are protected and they have every right to hold the event they want under the guidance of the equality act

I thought you were too?

If myself and 3 friends all agree we want to go to eat steak, we eat steak

If some of us want to eat steak and some of us want to eat chicken then we go somewhere that serves both and e don't judge each others choices...

Simple

What about it doodledog?

VioletSky

doodledog if you haven't read me arguing across several pages that yes, lesbians have different views... I don't know what to say really

I refer you back to your previous post on this thread.

doodledog if you haven't read me arguing across several pages that yes, lesbians have different views... I don't know what to say really