What is a lesbian?

VioletSky

Meh

Sorry. Meant to attach this thoughtful, open-minded comment

Playground tactics will only lose you respect

Where have I read that recently?

Are you going to report me?

HQ didn’t agree with you last time did they?

Go on why not give it a shot.

X post Gg

Galaxy

This is a complete aside and I dont want to disrupt the fight but I hope gagajo is ok. It feels as if I havent seen her on any threads for quite a long time. I understand if she didnt want to get involved in the gender debate anymore but I havent seen her on other threads either.

What made you think of her?

I thought the same thing last night. I was in 2 minds whether to pm?

Galaxy

This is a complete aside and I dont want to disrupt the fight but I hope gagajo is ok. It feels as if I havent seen her on any threads for quite a long time. I understand if she didnt want to get involved in the gender debate anymore but I havent seen her on other threads either.

I have tried to PM her a couple of times, but they wouldn’t go through, just the standard GN message.

Meh

“When people show you who they are believe them”

Maya Angelo.

This is a complete aside and I dont want to disrupt the fight but I hope gagajo is ok. It feels as if I havent seen her on any threads for quite a long time. I understand if she didnt want to get involved in the gender debate anymore but I havent seen her on other threads either.

VioletSky

Playground shenanigans in discussion will only lose respect for your opinions

Sigh.

When faced with rational argument revert to the personal.

As always.

Telling posters which communities they belong to is a new low even by the standards on these threads, which is not a high bar.

As far as I am concerned people can have sex with any other consenting adult. That is not the point. A lesbian may choose to have sex with men sometimes and that won’t change the fact that she is gay. Many don’t become lesbian until later life anyway and that’s not the point either.

The point, for the slow of thinking, is that a speed dating event is one where people go to meet potential partners. A lesbian going to such an event that is advertised as somewhere to meet other lesbians has every right to assume that someone she meets there is a woman. A man who turns up pretending to be a lesbian is being dishonest, and one who wears latex to enhance his erection is showing disrespect and aggression to everyone there.

If someone turned up to a Jewish dating event who wasn’t Jewish it would be similarly deceptive as would chicken pie served at a vegan restaurant - it subverts the whole point of the exercise and seizes control of what the attendees are able to expect and have a right to do - which is to make choices of their own and not be overruled by men who think they should fancy them, by other women telling them to be more ‘adventurous’, or by anyone telling them that the choices they have made need to be widened.

Making those choices on behalf of other people, even hypothetically on this thread is beyond even the arrogance I have come to expect from those who feel they can speak for others in the way they always do.

VioletSky

Glorianny

What I do like is that the more and more they post about their views the more illogical, inoperable, divisive and restrictive they appear.
Dictating who and who cannot be lesbian is a new low!

Yes, I couldn't get over that one

But when you say a lesbian can be someone who wants sex with a male, it is you who are dictating what a lesbian is.

Why is you dictating more valid than mine?

Of course we could take the view of the majority of lesbians.

Playground shenanigans in discussion will only lose respect for your opinions

Lathyrus

Is "I know you are but what am I" really the best you can do?

But Fleurpepper they would still be male no matter how feminine their appearance.

So the female who doesn’t want to share an intimate space with a male must either be deliberately deceived or must accept that the male wish is more important than her own.

Can you justify either of those?

It is not misjudging someone to say they are of the Male sex, as I say I know many men who are lovely, so what. I also know some unpleasant women, we dont segregate spaces on whether someone passes sone random niceness test.

VioletSky

I love how people feel they can speak for demographics they don't belong to or that they are somehow a representative of the entirety of a demographic they do belong to

Such self importance
So many double standards
So much misinformation
Scapegoating the trans demographic
Very little understanding or empathy

Always the same people saying the same things, nothing new, nothing learned, nothing gained

I love how people can make all kinds of assumptions about the demographic that other people belong to and somehow see themselves as a of the demographic they think they belong to.

Such self importance
Such self delusion
So much deliberate misinformation
Very very little understanding or empathy

Always the same people saying the same things……..

It is not our judgements or opinions. If we all say the magic words transwomen will still remain of the Male sex.

Have an amazing time Fleurpepper

I shall meet a couple of them tonight at a concert- and they will never ever know that I have been having this discussion. Perhaps one day the opportunity will arise.

If one of my friends is admitted to hospital- the medical team will judge where they are best placed on a ward. Luckily where they live, they will me on mixed wards, but with rooms with only 2 beds with a shower and WC. The medical staff will ensure any of them is placed in a room on their own, or with someone suitable. Whether they would 'out' the trans woman and ask the other person sharing the room if they mind- probably not as they would be transgressing medical secret.

Thank you VS and Glorianny for having the openess of mind, intelligence and empathy to understand the nuances, real differences actually. As said, I don't get it- I just happen to be a very simple woman- in a very straight way. But I know these trans women well, and I just cannot see them misjudged and so cruelly assimilated to those who 'pretend' to be trans just for the hell of attacking lesbians.

They are NOT the same. And they have made a very clear, determined and painful choice not to be 'men' anymore- partly to give up male violence, domination and control.

Glorianny

So if a lesbian chooses to have a relationship with a transwoman are GNers then saying she can no longer claim to be a lesbian? Because logically if you insist the transwoman is a man that is what you are claiming
This is another illogicality in the thinking which claims to support women, But insists transmen are women, just not the sort of women whose views need to be respected. {wanting to be referred to as a birth person, person with a cervix etc)
And now apparently lesbians who are involved with transwomen are apparently involved with men so can't be lesbians any longer.
And they claim Trans Activists are damaging women!!!!

So if a lesbian chooses to have a relationship with a transwoman are GNers then saying she can no longer claim to be a lesbian? Because logically if you insist the transwoman is a man that is what you are claiming

If a lesbian has a relationship with a trans woman - isn't she simply a lesbian who's chosen to have a relationship with a trans woman?

She, the lesbian, might be one of those more 'adventurous' ones you mentioned previously . And, there's various 'computations' of how this might work, depending on, for example, if the trans woman was fully transitioned, or, if not - might be 'accommodating' one way and another. Some might like to 'experiment', but will still consider themselves lesbian. In the same way that hetero males and females sometimes 'dabble' - they still remain hetero.

But, a lesbian who does not find attributes of the male anatomy attractive in any way shape or form, or even the male 'psyche', is not going to get into a sexual relationship with Ms Average Trans Woman. And, I suspect, they are the majority.

Glorianny

What I do like is that the more and more they post about their views the more illogical, inoperable, divisive and restrictive they appear.
Dictating who and who cannot be lesbian is a new low!

Yes, I couldn't get over that one

What I do like is that the more and more they post about their views the more illogical, inoperable, divisive and restrictive they appear.
Dictating who and who cannot be lesbian is a new low!

Lathyrus

A trans man can be called a birth person if they want. It’s disrespect that they show in demanding that all women are called that.

Snd no. If you are attracted to a male snd want sex with a penis you are not a lesbian.

How hard is that to understand?

I've no idea who has or who has not a penis,nor if it is functional, or for that matter who has a vagina.
It's none of my business.
And that doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is.
If you tell me you are lesbian, you are.
And the same for all other sexual orientations.

Lathyrus ''Places where females do not want males and where, if they knew a person there was male, they would object or not be able to go.''

how would they know?