What is a lesbian?

Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive. Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so.

And some men do care Glorianny.

Just like not all TW are aggressive loudmouths who want to "punch a TERF in the "f***ing face" (Baker) - not all men are brutal misogynists, either.

... and I know my 52 year-old son isn't because he was raised by me in an environment that treats men and women as equals. And I'm sure there are many such sons...

Great response, thanks for sharing FarNorth.

FarNorth-fantastic news.
How long before the male and TRA next move on their you can’t stop me agenda.

It seems the pub must have got proper legal advice letting them know they were in the wrong, so they did the right thing and court action didn't have to go ahead.

A couple of very short videos here, about 1.5 mins each, with some useful info -

twitter.com/mslisterssis/status/1666749494552322048?t=MVhH2KxZ5YMqKUuCnUw5Hw&s=19

twitter.com/mslisterssis/status/1696121208646107474?t=hUw_hotX1679NBeRWLVmqQ&s=19

Difficult questions are never answered, FN. It would be so much simpler if biological realists were told why a belief that sex is immutable is wrong. All we ever hear is 'just because', or 'it is a feeling'.

FarNorth

Glorianny wrote
Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive. Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so.

That may be true.

Why then should we accept absolutely any male as a woman if he chooses to make a declaration of being trans?
Why are those males any more likely to be trustworthy than those who are not trans?

.

Btw Glorianny you ignored my questions.
What is your reasoning on them?

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202309/medium-429762-fos6df6aiamp0ku.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202309/medium-907817-foxi6ulxwau-cbc.jpeg

Or perhaps the transphobic language is beginning to rub off on me.

I don't think the reality-denying language is rubbing off on me Glorianny.
I find it quite easy to write about women/females and men/males as what they are, and to avoid using wrong-sex pronouns.

It seems much more likely that you do really know who are women and who are men.

I've started a new thread about this 10 min video.
The host is clearly as infuriated as I am.

youtu.be/SHvN2ZSM1tM?si=nNvzRkSzm4RnH0mw

Glorianny

FarNorth

Oops, Glorianny, did you mean to make the transphobic comment that transwomen are not real women?

Perhaps I should have put inverted commas around the real Far North but I tend to address posters as politely as I can and they find so many terms unacceptable.
Or perhaps the transphobic language is beginning to rub off on me. I'm not immune to pressure.

Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

So it is 'some posters' who are to blame for what you post, now?

To what transphobic language do you refer, incidentally? It is very difficult to respond when you uses such vague terms. Do you have an example, please?

Glorianny

Mollygo

Astute observation Elegran.
^After all, if they had planned to transition legally from human men to human women at a time when women did not have the vote, they would voted first to retain that right for themselves.^

Just a small comment that all men did not have the vote until 1918, when some women were given it as well.
The concept that all men have always had privilege is completely wrong. The restrictions were complicated, but basically working class men who did not rent or own property did not have the vote.

Some men had no vote, because they didn't own or rent property. No women at all had the vote, because they were women

FarNorth

Oops, Glorianny, did you mean to make the transphobic comment that transwomen are not real women?

Perhaps I should have put inverted commas around the real Far North but I tend to address posters as politely as I can and they find so many terms unacceptable.
Or perhaps the transphobic language is beginning to rub off on me. I'm not immune to pressure.

ALL the TW and TRA who hit the headlines are femalephobic, regardless of whether the females have lied and cheated.

Glorianny wrote
Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive.
I wondered how long that word would take to reappear.

Now G appears to think she/he is speaking for all males-saying they are pretending to care.
My DH and the other males in my family, care. There’s no pretence about it.

Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so. evidence for that statement please

And we’re back to men treating women terribly. That occurs. It’s bad and no one would deny it.
But their actions should not be conflated with those males who treat real women badly and then declare they are TW (either before or after they are caught). They are a new subspecies of male, supported by other TW, TRA and sadly, as we see, by real women.

Excellent news Smileless

Oops, Glorianny, did you mean to make the transphobic comment that transwomen are not real women?

Great news that this event will be happening and the organiser has been vindicated.

Sorry Rosie. I was digging out the NUJ guidelines for my link half way through posting and missed the fact that you were asking the same question.

Good question, FN. It's the is my enemy's enemy my friend?' question, isn't it?

Glorianny wrote
Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive. Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so.

That may be true.

Why then should we accept absolutely any male as a woman if he chooses to make a declaration of being trans?
Why are those males any more likely to be trustworthy than those who are not trans?

In what way 'transphobic'? As I see it, the so-called 'MSM' are not so much becoming transphobic as resisting the demands of the trans lobby to automatically cast transpeople as 'the most marginalised group in society'. Actually, I haven't heard that phrase for a while, now I think about it - has it been dropped from the playbook?

The NUJ guidelines on trans rights are focussed on keeping within the law, (which is the point of them), and do not say that no negative stories about transpeople can be printed/broadcast. They do, however, make it clear that gratuitous mention of trans status, or the use of demeaning terms and punctuation (eg 'she' instead of she) are against the guidelines.

They are available here if you are not familiar with them. What is transphobic there?

Glorianny

I'm absolutely delighted if the law is being properly applied.

I don't think the "social media storm" is half as damaging given the support of the mainstream media, which is becoming increasingly transphobic.

Is the mainstream media becoming transphobic? They still report on male sex offenders as "she" once they decide they are transgender. If you consider that supporting women's rights is transphobic then surely supporting transrights is womanphobic, and there is a conflict, something the trans lobby has always vehemently denied.

I think we are lucky in that we have women in key positions who know and understand the law.
It's been a shock to some I think. Just keep ploughing on using the law, the rest is white noise to me.

I'm absolutely delighted if the law is being properly applied.

I don't think the "social media storm" is half as damaging given the support of the mainstream media, which is becoming increasingly transphobic.

Mollygo

*Astute observation Elegran.*
^After all, if they had planned to transition legally from human men to human women at a time when women did not have the vote, they would voted first to retain that right for themselves.^

Just a small comment that all men did not have the vote until 1918, when some women were given it as well.
The concept that all men have always had privilege is completely wrong. The restrictions were complicated, but basically working class men who did not rent or own property did not have the vote.

I think we shouldnt underestimate the courage it takes for these women to withstand the social media storm, the threats etc.
The advice for venues/organisations from the alliance is to take legal advice before caving into pressure from lobby groups.

Galaxy

LGB alliance just released statement, the pub chain have reinstated the event, agreeing that it is within the law to hold a women only event, excluding men. This will be one of the cases that helps support future women only events.

Excellent. So any doubts that there may have been about the organiser not acting legally have been completely squashed.

I hope that this means that she has Glorianny's support now, as she (G) did say that if the organiser had acted within the law that support would be there.

There does seem to be a snowball growing, which is good news. The more cases there are that create precedents the better, as they may deter those who deliberately misinterpret the legal situation to suit their prejudices.