What is a lesbian?

Absolutely Dickens: are we returning to a society in which women , heterosexual or homosexual are expected to have sex with a man, trans or not at the behest of the man? And don't get me started on INCELs ( the involuntarily celibate) ...

Mollygo

Well put as always, Dickens, Doodledog, Rosie51, Ali08. The problem here is once again, having got what they thought they wanted, TW have realised that they are still not women in the eyes of natal females.
Transwomen are women, is a thought terminating cliche that seeks to erase the difference between adjectives that modify nouns, tall woman & beautiful woman for example, and compound words which change the meaning of the noun.

Seahorses are not horses, hot dogs are not dogs, transwomen are not women.
Glorianny needs to realise that while as she says, some females, lesbian or not, may be happy to have a sexual relationship with a TW, the choice is up to the natal female.

Male bodied trans women activists who insist that TWAW have somehow managed to convince themselves that they are women simply by adding the noun "girl" to the noun "dick", giving us "girl-dick" - upon which you are invited to perform sexual acts as a punishment for not being complicit in their deception.

A body with a home-grown dick is a man. He can join the local WI and come first in the flower-arranging event, twirl around in a net tu-tu, wear a super sexy gown and sashay down the red carpet - but he is a he, he is a man. I will call him Trixie, Tracey or Tallulah, or whatever name he chooses, and will respect his wish to be she / they / them / their, or whatever, if going down the route of inner-identity, but the fact remains, a TW with a penis, is a biological man.

Well put as always, Dickens, Doodledog, Rosie51, Ali08. The problem here is once again, having got what they thought they wanted, TW have realised that they are still not women in the eyes of natal females.
Transwomen are women, is a thought terminating cliche that seeks to erase the difference between adjectives that modify nouns, tall woman & beautiful woman for example, and compound words which change the meaning of the noun.

Seahorses are not horses, hot dogs are not dogs, transwomen are not women.
Glorianny needs to realise that while as she says, some females, lesbian or not, may be happy to have a sexual relationship with a TW, the choice is up to the natal female.

All I can say is that, for as long as I can remember, lesbians are women attracted to women, gays are men attracted to men and straight/heterosexual people are attracted to the opposite sex!
I have never heard a man being called a lesbian!!
This is all getting so ridiculous nowadays!

Well said Dickens! Lesbians to be considered 'unadventurous' for not wanting a penis on their sexual partners? Wouldn't an attraction to penises make them bi or heterosexual?
It always confuses me when I read of transwomen lesbians on dating apps who specify they only want to date natal females..... why would they discriminate against other lesbians like themselves. Do they not find girl-dick attractive?

Doodledog

Lathyrus

But as those attending this event specifically made it known that that did not wish to be “more adventurous” don’t you think that wish should have been respected?

I think the point, which Glorianny has spectacularly missed, is that it should be up to the people attending the event who is able to attend, not anyone else. If they wanted to go to a 'meet a bunch of randoms and see if you fancy them' night they could go to any club. The whole point of a lesbian dating night is that women can meet other women without anyone telling them that they should just try a man and see if they like it (or that they might like to be 'more adventurous and less restrictive').

If the lesbians had wanted to be "more adventurous" they would have, presumably, extended the invitations to trans women with their "girl-dicks".

They clearly didn't, so the TW with a prominent girl-dick was being a dick.

Rosie51

Of course transwomen lesbians could always set up their own group exclusively for transwomen lesbians, so as to meet each other with a view to dating. They surely wouldn't have any objection to dating another transwoman would they?

Yes they could, and they may well do so, but that would be males dating males and it would appear that that’s not what they want.
There’s no rule against males dating males. any more.
Also no opportunity to call females transphobic for not fulfilling male demands.

Of course transwomen lesbians could always set up their own group exclusively for transwomen lesbians, so as to meet each other with a view to dating. They surely wouldn't have any objection to dating another transwoman would they?

Doodledog
I think the point, which Glorianny has spectacularly missed, is that it should be up to the people attending the event who is able to attend, not anyone else.

Why would lesbians who want to have a relationship with a transwoman want to attend an event specifically set up to meet other lesbians?
Why would transwomen who can never be lesbians feel they are entitled to attend events specifically for lesbians?
Why do people who are not lesbians feel they should be entitled to say who should attend events specifically set up by and for lesbians?

Lathyrus

But as those attending this event specifically made it known that that did not wish to be “more adventurous” don’t you think that wish should have been respected?

I think the point, which Glorianny has spectacularly missed, is that it should be up to the people attending the event who is able to attend, not anyone else. If they wanted to go to a 'meet a bunch of randoms and see if you fancy them' night they could go to any club. The whole point of a lesbian dating night is that women can meet other women without anyone telling them that they should just try a man and see if they like it (or that they might like to be 'more adventurous and less restrictive').

Actually if they wanted to be “more adventurous” with a man they would be adventurous bi-sexual not lesbian.

But as those attending this event specifically made it known that that did not wish to be “more adventurous” don’t you think that wish should have been respected?

Galaxy

Services are segregated by sex not gender.
Lesbians should be able to have spaces just for women, and not have to waste energy weeding out entitled men.

You assume therefore that all lesbians would be averse to having a relationship with a transwoman. I would make no such assumption. Just as there are lesbians who would not want to have such a relationship, there will be others who would be willing to be more adventurous. It's simply wrong to make assumptions, or put people into such narrow and restrictive roles

You obviously fail to recognise when something is implied in posts Doodledogor choose not to recognise it.

What am I failing to recognise?

Madgran Hmm. I think this is dangerously anecdotal and needs care ...her experience is her experience but without a full research programme then probably best this doesnt become a "fact" by repetition!

Dickens Agree! It's really rather dangerous - to lesbians - to assume that there has to be a reason for them preferring women to men - insinuating that 'something went wrong' and being gay is a condition brought on by some fault-line in their environment, rather than that they have a natural disposition towards women which is inherent in their make-up

Exactly Dickens. Aldo regarding the original anecdotal comment about "a lot of lesbians being gay because they were abused" .... I think that might cause quite a lot of angst for their families and family members too!

As I said without proper research and analysis this is a dangerous anecdote that can too easily become "fact" in people's minds once read

Galaxy

Services are segregated by sex not gender.
Lesbians should be able to have spaces just for women, and not have to waste energy weeding out entitled men.

T
Honestly the misrepresentation on these threads always astounds me

The constant repetition, (dragged up every time safe, male free spaces are mentioned)
of the words some women can be violent too, which has nothing to do with claims that men are violent, doesn’t surprise me at all.
It’s not a matter of whether it will be posted, but how long before it appears and is another form of misrepresentation of other’s opinions.

Services are segregated by sex not gender.
Lesbians should be able to have spaces just for women, and not have to waste energy weeding out entitled men.

Doodledog

Nobody is fabricating anything, or making accusations that violence has been condoned. Saying that is the misrepresentation!

What people are actually saying, if you read their posts, is that the fact that there are a few violent women is not a good reason for allowing men into places like refuges and women's prisons, and that those who claim it as such are not acting in the best interests of women at all.

(not that this has anything to do with transwomen expecting lesbians to have sex with them - it is another diversion)

You obviously fail to recognise when something is implied in posts Doodledogor choose not to recognise it.

No one has mentioned prisons. Simply that there are sometimes circumstances which seem to be in the best interests of women but are actually not, The admissions to women's refuges being one example.
Violent people of all genders need to be properly assessed before being admitted to places where vulnerable people are being housed.
No one of any gender should be expected to have sex with any other person (although I'm not absolutely certain that attending a speed dating event necessarily obligates anyone to have sex with anyone else)

Nobody is fabricating anything, or making accusations that violence has been condoned. Saying that is the misrepresentation!

What people are actually saying, if you read their posts, is that the fact that there are a few violent women is not a good reason for allowing men into places like refuges and women's prisons, and that those who claim it as such are not acting in the best interests of women at all.

(not that this has anything to do with transwomen expecting lesbians to have sex with them - it is another diversion)

Mollygo

Lathyrus

It’s a very odd philosophy that thinks that because some women have been known to be violent in a refuge that means men should be given the same opportunity.

Intersectional equality I guess🤔

You said it !

Honestly the misrepresentation on these threads always astounds me. No one has condoned any violence in any circumstances whatsoever. I can only assume that realising the arguments they make for discrimination rest largely on premises, and concepts which would be damaging to all women, those opposing intersectional feminism have to resort to complete fabrications to support their ideas. It's sad really and does absolutely nothing to support or further feminism.

Lathyrus

It’s a very odd philosophy that thinks that because some women have been known to be violent in a refuge that means men should be given the same opportunity.

Intersectional equality I guess🤔

You said it !

Sometimes that is the case though Iam together with being with abusive men in adulthood.

I agree about the lack of research but many years ago while attending a week's residential course for the degree I was taking with the OU in Social Sciences, a large proportion on the same course that year were lesbians and a surprising number said that bad experiences of men had propelled them toward same sex relationships.

Lathyrus 😉

It’s a very odd philosophy that thinks that because some women have been known to be violent in a refuge that means men should be given the same opportunity.

Intersectional equality I guess🤔

The suggestion that lesbian’s are the result of sexual abuse in childhood by men isn’t born out by any research. It’s in the same category as the old suggestion that gay men were homosexual because of over bearing mothers

Lesbians and gay men are born, not made