What is a lesbian?

They are the kind inclusive ones remember.

Glorianny

Smileless2012

In your example @ 11.21 Glorianny if that's the EW's choice, it is one she is entitled to make.

I never said she wasn't I said it was sometimes the fact and she and her family would have to accept it might happen. Rosie51then questioned it with some very odd comments about the numbers of transwomen.
The real question then is who will be to blame for the damage caused to her skin?

Oh for goodness' sake! Are you really saying that if an elderly woman rejected a male helping her with toileting she would be left for hours without a female coming to see to her? That would suggest a policy of punishment for asserting her own boundaries mattered. Skin damage doesn't happen within minutes of sitting in your own soil or else babies would be in big trouble!

Rosie51

Glorianny what exactly is the difference between a man who presents as a man or a man (maybe still complete with his male body) who presents as a transwoman? I know the old saying "clothes maketh the man" but does putting a bit of lippy and a frock on really have such transformative qualities?

Being a heterosexual woman I have had no interest in having sex with another female, that doesn't make me homophobic, no more than a gay man not wanting sex with me makes him heterophobic. It seems everything that doesn't bow down to the trans narrative is labelled transphobic, the word really is losing any meaning.

I don't know Rosie51. Mostly in everyday life I take people as they seem (am I supposed to ask them to show their genitals???)
If we are talking regulations a GRC would differentiate I suppose
Would a short, haired, butch woman be thrown out of a lady's loo because she wasn't wearing lipstick? (Or asked to drop her pants and prove her sex0

Smileless2012

In your example @ 11.21 Glorianny if that's the EW's choice, it is one she is entitled to make.

I never said she wasn't I said it was sometimes the fact and she and her family would have to accept it might happen. Rosie51then questioned it with some very odd comments about the numbers of transwomen.
The real question then is who will be to blame for the damage caused to her skin?

Yesterday @ 20.28 Fleurpepper you posted "it is not genetically true".

Fleurpepper

Galaxy

Not respecting the consent if women with regard to personal care is misogyny.

And the right of men? In most care homes and hospitals, there is no way such a request by a man could be garanteed. Whomever is on rosta does the job, whatever the job is, because they are vetted, trained or qualified to do so.

But yes, things are different where my niece lives- small town, mainly rural area, in a country where being trans has just not been politicised and polarised as has happened in the UK. So the issue of deceiving or lying has just not been relevant- she is a carer, well trained, does a great job, with a smile, humour and kindness. Her genetic gender is just not an issue here. O-one woud even think of requesting same gender only care.

Are you honestly saying because men may not be able to have same sex care it should be denied to women? Isn't that sinking to the lowest level, rather than trying to ensure men can state their preference too?

Please tell us the country where your niece lives and no-one would even think of requesting same sex care?

Oh dear I do feel as if we're going around in ever decreasing circles Fleurpepper. Your niece isn't a woman and I'm sure that you've agreed on this thread that it isn't possible to change sex.

Smileless '
Men do have the choice Fleurpepper; your niece is testament to that.'

NO, not at all. As she is a woman. And most care homes do NOT employ a sufficient number of male nurses or carers- do give men a choice. Not because they don't want to- but because there are so few. I know a few male nurses- none of them work in care homes.

Prior to admission actually. Personal care is frequently quite complex and individual there are lots of things we might need to know. Some people I worked with would require 3 members of staff for example. I am aware that there are poor providers of care but if they havent discussed personal care prior to the situation that you are describing then they are poor providers.

Glorianny what exactly is the difference between a man who presents as a man or a man (maybe still complete with his male body) who presents as a transwoman? I know the old saying "clothes maketh the man" but does putting a bit of lippy and a frock on really have such transformative qualities?

Being a heterosexual woman I have had no interest in having sex with another female, that doesn't make me homophobic, no more than a gay man not wanting sex with me makes him heterophobic. It seems everything that doesn't bow down to the trans narrative is labelled transphobic, the word really is losing any meaning.

That's not how care works or not how any care service I have managed or worked in functions. We have a full discussion on personal care needs and how it is to be provided on admission.

In your example @ 11.21 Glorianny if that's the EW's choice, it is one she is entitled to make.

I don't agree that there's an awful lot of posts on these threads about women being afraid of people with penises Glorianny. I prefer just to call them men. Personally, I'm not afraid of men but I still don't want them in facilities for women I use.

Once again, you have re posted a post and then commented on something it doesn't say. I said "does not necessarily equate to fear of trans gender".

I suggest the reason why the word transphobic is firmly rejected in these discussions is because it's used as an insult, to try and silence those who say that a man cannot be a woman.

I don't say a man can't be a woman because I'm afraid of men or because I'm transphobic, I say it because it's a fact.

Men do have the choice Fleurpepper; your niece is testament to that.

Rosie51

Wanting a female attendant is not transphobia, it is perfectly acceptable. Aren't we told transpeople are a tiny minority, and yet here we're being told if we don't allow a transwoman (even if complete with stubble!) to attend to personal needs we'll be left and I quote Glorianny to sit in a pool of shit and wee. Goodness, these care homes and hospitals that only have swathes of transwomen on the staff, they must employ the whole minority!
It's not transphobia to want same sex care. It's not fear of transwomen, they just don't want intimate care from a male, any male.

It's nothing to do with numbers. Elderly woman needs the loo-she's immobile, rings for carer. Carer who arrives is transwoman-she's unable to attend patient. She goes to find another carer. Meantime EW goes in her pants and has to in it.

We have single sex services in a range of places, prisons, sports etc, if you want to describe those who ask for single sex provision as a variety of names that's up to you. The court cases will continue whatever names are used.

Oh you can call me what you like Glorianny, its absolutely meaningless to me. I have heard a lot worse. It's like white noise.

The offending rates are very different but as I said in the service I managed we also organised same sex care for males, I would support any campaign by men with regard to this. You would have to look at the sexist view of caring as womens work as well.

You do know some females have beards don't you. Trans women who have gone through hormonal change and surgery, mostly do not.

Again, why do women have the choice, and not men?

I hadn't refreshed the page, and see others have already made my point
Exactly Galaxy regards Corbyn or Izzard!

Smileless2012

Not wanting to receive personal care from someone whose trans gender does not necessarily equate to a fear of trans gender.

So why would someone refuse care by a transperson?
There is an awful lot posted on these threads about women being afraid of people with penises, and that's often used as a reason for not permitting transwomen in changing rooms loos etc. So women in changing rooms are afraid of transwomen, but women being treated in care homes or hospitals are not? Aren't some of those women in both places?

Funny how the word transphobic is so firmly rejected it's almost as if there's something wrong with being described as it.

I think men are entitled to same sex care actually, we always tried to ensure that, it is slightly different because of the difference in offending rates. I would happily support men to have same sex care though.

But what if someone did request same gender only care Fleurpepper?

You seem to missing the point here. I don't doubt your niece is a well trained carer, doing a great job with a smile, humour and kindness but that isn't the point is it.

Wanting a female attendant is not transphobia, it is perfectly acceptable. Aren't we told transpeople are a tiny minority, and yet here we're being told if we don't allow a transwoman (even if complete with stubble!) to attend to personal needs we'll be left and I quote Glorianny to sit in a pool of shit and wee. Goodness, these care homes and hospitals that only have swathes of transwomen on the staff, they must employ the whole minority!
It's not transphobia to want same sex care. It's not fear of transwomen, they just don't want intimate care from a male, any male.

Back to gender and sex. It is a FACT, that some lesbians are attracted to trans women, who were originally male and still are, genetically. Not all- but some, and it is entirely their choice, not mine, or yours, or anyone's.

I don't get it - so what? Respect is respect, whether you totally understand the complicated issues, or not.

Galaxy

Not respecting the consent if women with regard to personal care is misogyny.

And the right of men? In most care homes and hospitals, there is no way such a request by a man could be garanteed. Whomever is on rosta does the job, whatever the job is, because they are vetted, trained or qualified to do so.

But yes, things are different where my niece lives- small town, mainly rural area, in a country where being trans has just not been politicised and polarised as has happened in the UK. So the issue of deceiving or lying has just not been relevant- she is a carer, well trained, does a great job, with a smile, humour and kindness. Her genetic gender is just not an issue here. O-one woud even think of requesting same gender only care.