I am fuming

Gwylt. The e consult form is regularly used by patients at the surgery I use. I have used the form successfully myself. I'm in Oxfordshire.

MOnica wishing your husband a speedy recovery. Best wishes.

Aveline He has just returned from the doctor with a prescription for heavy duty antibiotics. He needed that appointment and if left he could have become very seriously ill.

How many people will end up in A&E because they are not up to dealing with these long forms and give up and just get worse, until an emergency is reached.

M0nica I sometimes wonder if the IT whizzes who develop these questionnaires and algorithms ever actually works with people who are unwell. I hope your DH is much better soon.

DH needs to see a doctor. He has symptoms that suggest that he could be developing pneumomia and as he has a damaged lung this is worrying.

He went on line to find that our usual surgery site has been replaced by a standard NHS surgery site. This new site is all smart technology and AI and it has taken him the better part of 15 minutes to make an appointment. He had to answer endless questions about whether he had had a fall, suffered a blow to the chest, had he recently had chemotherapy, organ transplant, cancer diagnosis, did he have inherited interstitial lung disease, cystic fibrosis, had he ever smoked(now theres a question that can mean anything or nothing).

All this had to be completed and answerd by someone feeling far from well. If I hadn't been with him, he would have given up long before he reached the end of the form and just had another swig of benylin (non-drowsy version, of course) and hoped for the best.

Anyway he has an appointment, but I am left wondering how many people faced with this form, feeling ill, or with a small but worrying symptom, will just give up and not bother. Not to mention those whos truggle with IT anyway.

OldFrill no non NHS funding for the wards I volunteer at.

When my back was really awful, I saw a private physio while waiting for the NHS one. It helped enormously, massage, exercises, scan treatment etc. - but expensive.

I can't even begin to describe my extreme disappointment with the NHS physio, different as chalk and cheese. They shouted instructions (like I was thick as a plank and deaf) poked at my spine - then gave me printed exercises. I didn't bother going back.

Eventually, in extreme pain, I saw a locum doctor - with a superiority complex, who said I just needed paracetamol and ibuprofen (they don't prescribe them now, so you buy your own). I marched/limped out, saying I wouldn't even bother them if that was the case. Luckily, I still had plenty of Codeine and Tramadol.

That was about five years ago - and I just won't see a doctor unless it's vital now.

I hope travelsafar had a helpful telephone call with the physio last Monday. In another thread she said she was doing her exercises and was trying to stay as mobile and active as possible.
On that thread she was advised to contact her GP for other help and advice as well as physio advice. Sadly for her the GP appt was cancelled.

This thread has turned into a deeper discussion about the NHS which while being valid probably has been upsetting for her as I dont think that was her intention.

Aveline

My two recent NHS experiences were very good. In an emergency they deliver. I can't comment on longer term illnesses but am aware that the palliative care and dementia wards where I volunteer seem to be well enough funded.

I wonder if the palliative care and dementia wards are solely funded by the NHS Many charities/businesses support wards financially, even paying for extra staff training. I'm not criticising this but sometimes the amount of outside support and where it comes from is not obvious.

I don’t worship anything Monica. I don’t believe as you do that the NHS is in need of radical reform either. What I really do dislike though is the extrapolation of people’s personal experience and portraying that as a universal truth when there is more concrete factual information available. The NHS is in the worst state it’s been for many years, I’m far more interested in addressing the specific issues facing it than I am in yet more reform, reorganisation and soul destroying criticism of a service that is trying very hard against insurmountable odds.

My two recent NHS experiences were very good. In an emergency they deliver. I can't comment on longer term illnesses but am aware that the palliative care and dementia wards where I volunteer seem to be well enough funded.

Casdon continue your worship of this secular god, I am seeing far too much of its downside at present, for me, family members and now my god daughter. We are scattered all over the country.

It was recently reported that all our maternity units were not of the standard they should be and hospital after hospital is found to be failing patients. You may be content with this.I am not.

M0nica

Casdon But we have fewer beds per thousand - hence all those patients in corridors, we have fewer scanners hemce long waits for scans and my seriously ill god daughter, travelling 60 miles to London for a scan because her local hospital could not do it for several months, but a London hospital could do it in a fortnight. On the money we are contributing I think we should be expecting much more than we are getting.

Yes Monica that is true. Beds and scanners alone alone don’t directly equate to better or worse healthcare though.
Scanners for example are capital expenditure, which is one area where the NHS fares very poorly in OECD comparisons.
www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/16c83385-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/16c83385-en
Scanners which are out of use or out of date make a big difference to NHS scanning capacity

It’s a very complex picture, and like all health systems the NHS is like the curate’s egg.

Casdon But we have fewer beds per thousand - hence all those patients in corridors, we have fewer scanners hemce long waits for scans and my seriously ill god daughter, travelling 60 miles to London for a scan because her local hospital could not do it for several months, but a London hospital could do it in a fortnight. On the money we are contributing I think we should be expecting much more than we are getting.

Like you, a GP referred me to a physio without examining my very painful back. Expert physio ran her hands down my spine and advised an urgent surgical consultation - I had fractured a vertebra and only good fortune meant that I had not done serious and permanent damage. Superglue injected under pressure solved the problem, but I was very lucky. A good physiotherapist is worth her weight in gold!

Mirren

I hear what you are saying - my late OH was a GP and I understand the frustrations - but I was referred to a physio without a doctor first making a proper diagnosis and what she did resulted in me finishing up needing a microdiscectomy after weeks of then being unable to walk. So I do have a bit if a bee in my bonnet about diagnosis first, physio second! - with good reason!

Last week my GP phoned to see how I was doing, then suggested I phone the RA advice line, as she had already alerted my consultant that I was struggling. I was astonished when ONE HOUR LATER, my consultant phoned to discuss a new treatment plan.
It's not all bad.

I take opiates for chronic pain, but it wasn't my GP, who prescribed, but a pain clinic consultant after I had been referred by my RA consultant.
There is a process and procedure and you have to try other options, including physio first.

Mirren, I have every admiration for GPs, especially in these post Covid times. 💐

So sorry to see all the struggles people have with GPs but I have to say we are lucky - have great, helpful reception staff and can be seen face to face if the GP thinks it’s necessary or they explain when we can self refer. There are good practices about

Primrose53

foxie48

Primrose53

Baggs

Sometimes a photocopied exercise sheet is enough. It was for me when my broken wrist/mashed hand cast came off.

It was actually good to know exactly what I should be doing immediately after the cast removal rather than having to wait, possibly days, for a physio appointment.

So they could get anybody to give you that …. A receptionist, auxiliary (can’t remember what they call them now) and save a shed load of money by not paying a physiotherapist. 😉

"Prescription-only medicines, such as antibiotics, must be prescribed by a qualified health professional. This may be a GP, hospital doctor, dentist, nurse, pharmacist, optometrist, physiotherapist, podiatrist, paramedic or therapeutic radiographer." From NHS website

So no, they can't just get anyone.

My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. 🤣

What a sad state of affairs when students are studying for several years at Uni to become physiotherapists then end up handing out photocopied leaflets.

Not so long ago if you saw an NHS physio you were examined, treated with massage, TENS machine or manipulation ….those days are long gone.

When I attend the RA clinic, there are always specialist physios attached to the clinic to see you, if you are referred by the consultant. It has happened to me on a number of occasions and I am not just handed a leaflet of exercises.
A discussion follows the clinic visit with the clinician and you are either given further appointments (at a local hospital if you prefer), necessary appliances and or a referral to OT.

Those days are not long gone.

M0nica

* Mirren* we are not all lazy and entitled. The recent OECD report showed that we are paying more per head for our health services than most other countries and that the standard of care we get - fewer beds, fewer scanners of all kind and quality of care is well below average for the same selection of countries.

We seem to have turned the NHS into a secular God, whose altar we continue to worship at no matter how badly it behaves and how much harm it does. Look at the reports on failing hospitals and failing maternity servoces.

Do not get me wrong, I do appreciate that GPs in particular are under a lot of pressure and are having much of the autonomy they used to have eroded by all kinds of restrictions, but until we realise that the NHS, the God of the politically correct, is failing, failing badly and needs a through root and branch rethink, we need to be willing to accept that we will soon be on the world list of countries with failing health services.

Monica these are the OECD indicators. The UK is above average performance on a large number of them.
www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/health-at-a-glance-United-Kingdom-EN.pdf

‘A lot of ‘them’ - gp receptionists are real people too! ..doing their their job the way the practice instructs them . many patients are lovely but often receptionists are the butt of rudeness from them . Many patients missed charm school too !!

* Mirren* we are not all lazy and entitled. The recent OECD report showed that we are paying more per head for our health services than most other countries and that the standard of care we get - fewer beds, fewer scanners of all kind and quality of care is well below average for the same selection of countries.

We seem to have turned the NHS into a secular God, whose altar we continue to worship at no matter how badly it behaves and how much harm it does. Look at the reports on failing hospitals and failing maternity servoces.

Do not get me wrong, I do appreciate that GPs in particular are under a lot of pressure and are having much of the autonomy they used to have eroded by all kinds of restrictions, but until we realise that the NHS, the God of the politically correct, is failing, failing badly and needs a through root and branch rethink, we need to be willing to accept that we will soon be on the world list of countries with failing health services.

I have been critical of our local GP in the last 3 years, but I must compliment them for the speed of a reply this Friday afternoon .
I had a blood test last week and was able to check the results on line. All fine except for one result. I rang the surgery on Friday after 2.00 when you ring for results. Pleasant and helpful receptionist advised me to query this on an on line form a s she couldnt answer my query.
Which I did expecting to never hear again. But within an hour I had had a text message from a GP explaining the result and putting my mind at rest. Brilliant. I didnt need to see a GP which would have been a waste of my and their time.

So their new post covid system worked well this time.

I can only sing the praises of a good physio BUT. As you said you must do exercises religiously. It can take lot of determination
And continue to do so
Mine rescued me when I was totally out of align following steroid myopathy and on crutches and two new hips
New woman now following a lot of really hard work

It's NOT the fault of the receptionists so do not be rude to them
They will have been instructed to ring you so you are shooting the messenger.
Nor is it the " fault " of the GP.
If " all I want is painkillers " then you are totally wasting an appointment.
If you have a musculo- skeletal problem then the GP is NOT the correct person.
I know this because I am one.
I see this scenario playing out daily.
People insisting they must see a GP only to be told
1) You need a physio. Please remember that physios train for years in the speciality of bones and muscles problem. A medical students gets about 2 weeks training.
2) The NICE guidance now prevents us from prescribing any opiate.
The strongest we can advise is over the counter cocodamol .
Opiate are not the answer for muscular pain and you would have wasted your GP and your own time going to the appointment to have your request refused.
I suggest, rather than being angry and posting your wrath on here ...you educate yourself, stop acting so entitled and do those exercises.
They will help, done properly a d consistently.
Trouble is everyone is lazy and entitled.
The NHS does not issue magic wands.
Try taking some responsibility for your own health for a change .