Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

How many times do I have to say it Glorianny? Trans women are not women so no, I am not creating "two sorts of women", there is only one 'sort' of women; women.

Great suggestion Rosie.

Glorianny

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

But you want trans people to carry gender certificates *Smileless2012^ so you create two sorts of women, one which must carry identification one which needent. The wrong sort of people always need to show some ID. The right sort of course are just accepted.

Fine, let's all carry identification that must show our birth sex, not a legal fiction. Some services demanded proof of covid vaccination before allowing people to use them, so single sex spaces could demand proof from everybody of natal sex before admittance. No wrong sort of people

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

But you want trans people to carry gender certificates *Smileless2012^ so you create two sorts of women, one which must carry identification one which needent. The wrong sort of people always need to show some ID. The right sort of course are just accepted.

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

It's very clear what you mean, Smileless. The lack of logic is in the insistence that (a) it is impossible to tell who is male and who is female so there is no point in trying to keep safe spaces for women, and simultaneously saying that (b) the existing law protects women and preserves their safe spaces so there is no need to legislate further.

Separating sex from gender is perfectly logical, as they are separate concepts.

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

Glorianny

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

If that's a dig at me I'm simply an intersectional feminist interested in how the gender critical view life and how people try to justify discrimination. It is seldom logical.

Where is the logic in saying that women don't need protection as the law already provides for it by saying that if a woman won't attend something because a transwoman may be there then transwomen won't be able to attend, but also that it is impossible to police entry to events without 'looking in people's pants'?

Smileless2012

No Glorianny, not one regulation for some women and not for others trans men are women; trans women are not.

Your desperate attempt to suggest that I am in any way discriminatory by introducing no Irish, no Blacks into your response to me, is extremely offensive.

But natal women won't have to show any evidence will they ? So transmen are the wrong sort of women for you. Just as the Irish were the wrong sort of people.

No Glorianny, not one regulation for some women and not for others trans men are women; trans women are not.

Your desperate attempt to suggest that I am in any way discriminatory by introducing no Irish, no Blacks into your response to me, is extremely offensive.

Glorianny says
If that's a dig at me I'm simply an intersectional feminist interested in how the gender critical view life and how people try to justify discrimination. It is seldom logical.
And if anyone doesn’t know what an intersectional feminist is, if they’re all like the examples on GN, it’s a person who supports almost anybody except females.

Well done Doodledog ‘a script to work from’ 😀👍

I would say a Fable after the National Federation of Women’s Institute sent me an email saying that ‘transwomen are women whether they have transitioned or not’. I told them if they believed that they were ‘deluded’ 🤪

How can someone with a penis be a woman ? The world has gone barking mad 🐶

I think I am living in an alternative universe 🌎

Doodledog

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

It has crossed my mind, as trans lobbyists all use the same phraseology and arguments. It is as though they are given a script to work from.

Do they? You obviously know far more about them than I do. I just enjoy picking holes in ridiculous and unfounded discriminatory opinions.

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

It has crossed my mind, as trans lobbyists all use the same phraseology and arguments. It is as though they are given a script to work from.

Glorianny

Smileless2012

If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.

So one regulation for some women but not for others. Isn't that discrimination? A bit like "no Irish, no blacks" Prove you are a transman.
I'm sure Doodledog will want to know who is going to inspect this and ask for the certificate then refuse admission to someone?

Not particularly. It has been you, for years, who has said that there is no point in wanting single sex spaces as they are impossible to police. Now that I am asking you how the law you persistently quote can be policed, you object.

Yu can't have it both ways. Incidentally, how does asking for a GRC equate to 'no dogs, no Irish, no Blacks'? I can't see the parallel.

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

If that's a dig at me I'm simply an intersectional feminist interested in how the gender critical view life and how people try to justify discrimination. It is seldom logical.

Smileless2012

If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.

So one regulation for some women but not for others. Isn't that discrimination? A bit like "no Irish, no blacks" Prove you are a transman.
I'm sure Doodledog will want to know who is going to inspect this and ask for the certificate then refuse admission to someone?

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.

Mollygo

As long as TW have the right to do what they want Glorianny you have shown that you don’t care. Your post is just another example of that.🤣

No my post is an example of how flawed the gender critical argument is and shows that it isn't possible to protect women by designating people as their natal sex.
It shows that all the anti-trans propaganda is not really interested in the safety of women at all but just in castigating transwomen.
But there is a simple way to show how wrong I am. How, if people are designated according to their natal sex, will you stop a man entering a women's facility by claiming he is a transman?

Smileless2012

Even if someone's a trans man they are still a woman Glorianny and where has anyone on this thread or any thread on this subject, ever suggested that trans men are fair game and it doesn't matter if they're assaulted?

A trans man would still be honouring single sex spaces if they use those for women, because you can't change sex and they remain women. This has nothing to do with our "beliefs" because this is a biological fact.

Possibly transmen should not use male spaces, but it’s up to the males to decide if they will accept transmen in their spaces.
So evidently it doesn't matter if transmen are safe just if men accept them.

I know that Smileless2012 I fully accept that according to your beliefs transmen should use women's facilities. My argument is that if it is predatory males masquerading as transwomen who are the problem what is to stop those males simply walking into a women's facility and saying they are a transman? They wouldn't even need to change their clothes. So something which could be done purely on a whim or by chance, without any effort.

As long as TW have the right to do what they want Glorianny you have shown that you don’t care. Your post is just another example of that.🤣

Even if someone's a trans man they are still a woman Glorianny and where has anyone on this thread or any thread on this subject, ever suggested that trans men are fair game and it doesn't matter if they're assaulted?

A trans man would still be honouring single sex spaces if they use those for women, because you can't change sex and they remain women. This has nothing to do with our "beliefs" because this is a biological fact.

Mollygo

Glorianny, I love to see you wriggle out of answering my post at 22:34, but
that’s wonderful!!!
You’ve finally acknowledged the danger that males in female spaces present to females.

TW are male therefore should not use female spaces.

I mustn’t be GC, because I’ve never said TM shouldn’t use male spaces.

Possibly transmen should not use male spaces, but it’s up to the males to decide if they will accept transmen in their spaces.

Would the presence of TM make males feel vulnerable like that 220lb martial arts expert claimed he did when faced by a female whilst he was in a female space?

Would the males be afraid of being punched in the face and losing teeth the way that female was?

In which case, they should start a campaign to keep male spaces free from females.

Could you remind me how many attacks transmen have made on males, in male safe spaces?
*Were the transmen attackers, if any exist, the tall, strong, muscular, deep voiced
females I used to hear about?*

So you want one rule for women and one for men. Single sex spaces are single sex spaces you can't have it your way for transwomen and another way for transmen.
I suppose you think transmen (who you think are women anyway) are fair game and it doesn't matter if they are assaulted.
But it doesn't matter anyway. Because if the law is applied according to your beliefs no one would be able to challenge any man accessing a woman's space because they might be a transman, Where transmen would choose to use is irrelevant. Legally they would be women. If transwomen are designated as men, transmen must be designated as women. That's what happens if your beliefs are enacted.

Glorianny, I love to see you wriggle out of answering my post at 22:34, but
that’s wonderful!!!
You’ve finally acknowledged the danger that males in female spaces present to females.

TW are male therefore should not use female spaces.

I mustn’t be GC, because I’ve never said TM shouldn’t use male spaces.

Possibly transmen should not use male spaces, but it’s up to the males to decide if they will accept transmen in their spaces.

Would the presence of TM make males feel vulnerable like that 220lb martial arts expert claimed he did when faced by a female whilst he was in a female space?

Would the males be afraid of being punched in the face and losing teeth the way that female was?

In which case, they should start a campaign to keep male spaces free from females.

Could you remind me how many attacks transmen have made on males, in male safe spaces?
*Were the transmen attackers, if any exist, the tall, strong, muscular, deep voiced
females I used to hear about?*

Doodledog

You are deliberately or accidentally missing the point of what I am saying, Glorianny. I have repeated it several times, but will try once more beef giving up.

Me - 'Men should not be allowed in women's spaces.'
You - 'Ah, but it is impossible to police that without looking in people's pants, and what about masculine-looking women?'

Me - 'The law should protect women by legislating against men being able to access women's spaces/events simply by saying they are women.'
You - There is a law that does just that'. (Quote from a law about single sex services).
Me - 'But as you say, it is impossible to police. How, therefore, does that law have teeth?'
You - dance round the point for several posts, call me 'pathetic', speak to me as though I am a child who hasn't 'bothered' to do her homework, and accuse me of asking you to solve my problems.

OK let's look at what the gender critical propose based on their beliefs.
Transwomen are not women but men and should therefore use men's facilities.
Transmen are not men but women and should therefore use women's facilities.
Therefore there will be people who look like men using women's facilities, which means that any man who is intent on accessing them for nefarious purposes doesn't need to go to any bother dressing or presenting as a woman. He just has to say he's a transman.
So how does that make women safer?

You are deliberately or accidentally missing the point of what I am saying, Glorianny. I have repeated it several times, but will try once more beef giving up.

Me - 'Men should not be allowed in women's spaces.'
You - 'Ah, but it is impossible to police that without looking in people's pants, and what about masculine-looking women?'

Me - 'The law should protect women by legislating against men being able to access women's spaces/events simply by saying they are women.'
You - There is a law that does just that'. (Quote from a law about single sex services).
Me - 'But as you say, it is impossible to police. How, therefore, does that law have teeth?'
You - dance round the point for several posts, call me 'pathetic', speak to me as though I am a child who hasn't 'bothered' to do her homework, and accuse me of asking you to solve my problems.