Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

Doodledog

Smileless2012

Excellent post Mollygo.

Agreed.

Glorianny what do you see as being the ‘real problem in women’s sports’?

The real problem in women's sports is that there is no way of discerning who is a woman without impacting massively on the lives of some minority women.

So black girls who have always been designated. as women enter their events in the country they grew up in, reach the top of their field enter international sport and are then designated as men, and forced to take medication that makes them ill, or stop competing, simply because a test, which was not available to them, has now called them a man. In spite of the fact that there is little evidence of the benefits of natural testosterone. And the levels of testosterone in elite sports people when tested varied, with some males having low ,and some females high, levels.
Low testosterone concentrations were seen 25.4% of male elite competitors in 12 of the 15 sports and high testosterone concentrations in 4.8% of female elite athletes in 3 of the 8 sports tested. Interpretation of the results is more difficult; some of the differences between sports are at least partially due to differences in age of the athletes but the apparent differences between sports remain significant after adjusting for age

So the real problem is that the proposed methods do not work and are discriminatory, besides being based on questionable science.
The method used in US states of using birth sex plainly doesn't work either.
I have absolutely no objection to women's sport being made more equal but I don't think that can be done by any of the proposed methods and I would always vigorously oppose any method which increased discrimination.

Smileless2012

Excellent post Mollygo.

Agreed.

Glorianny what do you see as being the ‘real problem in women’s sports’?

Yes excellent post Mollygo

The oppressor would not be so strong if he did not have accomplices among the oppressed Simone de Beauvoir

Excellent post Mollygo.

Glorianny, 🤣🤣🤣
Why would you think it means you?

Thank God for minorities!

Yes, That minority group of women who fought for the rights of all women (AHF) against those males who thought they should not have those rights. And in those days, like today, those males were supported by some women who were happy to be subjugated.

They brought us equality

Which females are still having to fight for. Equality you are trying to exchange for your version-giving males the power to make decisions over what females are or aren’t allowed to have.

They brought us human rights.

Which evidenced by your posts, people are trying to apply to males rather than females.

They recognise that no matter how small the numbers of people are in any section of the community they deserve to be treated equally.

As long as it’s your version of equally and not the equally that respects the rights of females.

They support those who would be overwhelmed, silenced, and sometimes even eliminated, by majorities.

^And in today’s world, that means females, whether here in the UK or elsewhere in the world, where there are males who are so desperate to overwhelm, silence and even eliminate women, together with those women who, by their words and actions support the males doing that overwhelming, silencing and eliminating of women.
Trans Women Are Transwomen.

Doodledog

No, I wasn't referring to you. Why would I be if you haven't ever closed down a thread in that manner? It does happen though, and I agree that it is testament to superficiality of argument.

I also agree that the loudest voices are not necessarily right. They are, of course, not necessarily wrong, either. The same applies to discrimination (that I don't believe it to be right), but your concern doesn't seem to extend to the women who are being discriminated against by having male-bodied people forcing their way into the sports for which they have trained so hard in order to achieve what used to be success.

My concern extends to all and always has Doodledog. I have said there is a real problem it women's sport that banning transgender women will not fix.

I've shown it by posting about transmen in states in the US which designate by birth sex, and by posting about the discrimination exercised on black women athletes.

The concept that banning transwomen will fix everything is just wrong and discriminatory. Pretending that pointing out the inadequacies, the pitfalls, and the impracticality of the schemes some propose, is accepting discrimination is just wrong. And shows how weak the argument is.

No, I wasn't referring to you. Why would I be if you haven't ever closed down a thread in that manner? It does happen though, and I agree that it is testament to superficiality of argument.

I also agree that the loudest voices are not necessarily right. They are, of course, not necessarily wrong, either. The same applies to discrimination (that I don't believe it to be right), but your concern doesn't seem to extend to the women who are being discriminated against by having male-bodied people forcing their way into the sports for which they have trained so hard in order to achieve what used to be success.

I've never believed that the majority of voices or the loudest voices are necessarily right. I examine my own conscience to see if my views are consistent with my beliefs in human rights and equality. And in the case of these threads I am always certain that they are. Discrimination is never right no matter how many people support it.

Doodledog

Ah, room for 218 more posts?

Unless some utter spanner comes along with 217 one-word posts, that is. That often happens when someone is losing an argument.

Or 3 number posts????
If the reference is supposed to me, losing an argument on GN just makes me realise how little some people really believe in equality and how superficial their commitment to achieving it is.
I doubt I've ever posted a one word post!

Ah, room for 218 more posts?

Unless some utter spanner comes along with 217 one-word posts, that is. That often happens when someone is losing an argument.

Iam64

Catching up again. Thanks to all the posters who haven’t given up trying to tell it like it is. On a more positive note, Glorianny is in a tiny minority. One that needs to be in opposition to main stream ordinary views on life.

Thank God for minorities! They brought us equality in voting. They brought us human rights. They recognise that no matter how small the numbers of people are in any section of the community they deserve to be treated equally. They support those who would be overwhelmed, silenced, and sometimes even eliminated, by majorities.

218?

218

Catching up again. Thanks to all the posters who haven’t given up trying to tell it like it is. On a more positive note, Glorianny is in a tiny minority. One that needs to be in opposition to main stream ordinary views on life.

I want to know when women, you know those blessed with female sex biology, will be listened to. Our arguments about not having males in our sports, toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards .........just ignore or abuse them, it's so depressing, and even if our black sisters should push their way to the front of the protest, you just know they'll be "the wrong kind of black women"
Black women (mostly males) that support male inclusion.... they're hunky dory 🙄🙄🙄 and given first place inclusion.

DoodleDog

Smileless2012
You really are the gift that keeps on giving Doodledog

Smileless2012

You really are the gift that keeps on giving Gorianny.

It's like plaiting fog, isn't it?
Or knitting jelly.
She hears what she wants to hear and ignores the truth that TW are male, whether they are POC or white, young or old.

Smileless2012

You really are the gift that keeps on giving Gorianny.

It's like plaiting fog, isn't it?

So the concept now is that unless all black people think something is racist it can't possible be?

No. The concept is that your saying that because some people of colour say something is racist, that it must be, and my saying that this is nonsense, as not all POC think alike. Not the same thing at all.

I don't think that's how it works.
Well nor do I, which is why I didn't say anything of the kind.

I think there's a lot of whatabooutery going on in a desperate effort to support the unsupportable.
Can you point to the whataboutery, please? And the desperate attempt? Oh, and the insupportable too, would be good.

Black women think sport is racist. They have a right to think that and have their views respected.
The ones who think it have every right to do so, and to have their views respected (but not necessarily agreed with), as do the ones who don't. Again, I never said otherwise.

And are you suggesting that all black women think sport is racist, or that because some do it must be? Again, your post is ambiguous, so it would be helpful if you could clarify, please?

You really are the gift that keeps on giving Gorianny.

Doodledog

You are twisting my words again.

Of course all black people don't think alike. To think that they do is racist in itself - what do you think they are? Robots?

Some black people will say that it is racist to prevent transwomen or other male-bodied people to race against women, but others won't. Some will say that the earth is flat and others won't. I can quote my friend Carole and her 15 year old daughter, who are both black, and who both think your posts are risible, but what would be the point? You wouldn't believe it, which is, I suppose, fair enough, but even if you did, it would simply be their view - even as people of colour they don't assume that they can speak for all people with black, brown or any other skin colour. They are insulted to hear that you feel that skin colour matters to you so much that you believe that they could.

Do I really need to remind you that 'black people' encompasses professors in Brixton, nomads in Sudan, South African politicians and township-dwellers, Americans from Missouri and many, many more disparate groups, who have more differences than similarities, in lifestyle, religion, politics and access to resources. The idea that because some of those people have said something does not mean that they would all agree.

So the concept now is that unless all black people think something is racist it can't possible be?
I don't think that's how it works.
I think there's a lot of whatabooutery going on in a desperate effort to support the unsupportable.
Black women think sport is racist. They have a right to think that and have their views respected.

You are twisting my words again.

Of course all black people don't think alike. To think that they do is racist in itself - what do you think they are? Robots?

Some black people will say that it is racist to prevent transwomen or other male-bodied people to race against women, but others won't. Some will say that the earth is flat and others won't. I can quote my friend Carole and her 15 year old daughter, who are both black, and who both think your posts are risible, but what would be the point? You wouldn't believe it, which is, I suppose, fair enough, but even if you did, it would simply be their view - even as people of colour they don't assume that they can speak for all people with black, brown or any other skin colour. They are insulted to hear that you feel that skin colour matters to you so much that you believe that they could.

Do I really need to remind you that 'black people' encompasses professors in Brixton, nomads in Sudan, South African politicians and township-dwellers, Americans from Missouri and many, many more disparate groups, who have more differences than similarities, in lifestyle, religion, politics and access to resources. The idea that because some of those people have said something does not mean that they would all agree.

This time, Glorianny says . . . All black people don't think alike. You don't think it is racism.
Glorianny, I’m sure that suggesting you know how all, or any black people you post about on here think, is the most racist post on here today.
I’m certain I don’t know what anyone thinks, unless they tell me personally.

From your posts, I get the impression that you think it’s OK for males to lie and claim they are AHF, when they are male, and that you think it’s OK for people to cheat to get what they want at the expense of others who have earned a reward honestly.

I don’t know that. You might just be saying it to give a bad impression of yourself. Who knows?

Doodledog

*I've asked if you have evidence of black people saying this isn't racism please post it. If not stop trying to pretend your views are anything to do with black people*

I am doing nothing of the kind. I'm not even sure what 'to do with black people' means, but as I keep saying, my views are my own. I don't 'pretend' anything. And the idea that all black people will think something is not only idiotic but racist.

Please stop twisting my words. I am reluctant to believe that you can't follow my posts - plenty of other people do - so this constant 'misunderstanding' of everything I say doesn't wash.

Sorry then I'm afraid I can't follow your posts or your reasoning.
As far as I can see it depends on these things
All black people don't think alike.
You don't think it is racism.
And on the basis of that it isn't racism.

The earlier comment about any black person claiming racism is not only inaccurate ,as many black people have claimed there is racism in sport, it is an attempt to ignore the evidence which I have posted links to. Many black women have complained about the discrimination in sport

The concept that black women are subjected to more discrimination even has a name now. It's misogynoir. There's a lot of it about.

Oh good, Mollygo, though not sure I have the stamina to keep on pointing out the b……g obvious!

GrannySomerset

Am I imagining things or is glorianny’s habit of reposting large chunks of earlier contributions a way to shorten the discussion by filling it up and closing it down sooner? No, of course it couldn’t be that - could it?

You may be right. 🤣🤣🤣 it could be a hide what I’ve posted technique.
The size of the reposts doesn’t matter. There are 1000 posts per thread allowed. 230 left to go once I post this.