Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

That is a good point Molly.

Excellent point, Molly. The differences between the structure of men’s and women’s tennis matches show very clearly why we need to have sex classes to be fair.

Strange that TW aren’t queuing up to insist they’re entitled to play in women’s tennis matches.
Or is that because even as winners, they’d be paid less than the men, and men are fighting against equal pay for winners, because men’s matches are best of 5 and women’s are shorter.

No, from what I’ve read it is laughing at the absurdity of the idea that men can ‘identify’ as women (even though they are burly ‘blokes’ and still win. I haven’t seen it, but the objections are from trans supporters who don’t like being laughed at. Obviously nobody likes being laughed at, but if the joke is that they are obviously only winning because they are male then it’s clear that they do see how daft the whole thing is, however much they insist that TWAW.

Not something I’ll watch either, though I did watch the trailer.
I expect it will be used to tell us that we’re all taking males pretending to be women just to win too seriously. and we should be kind to the poor things who can’t win any other way.

I guess it depends on how it’s done and who is the butt of the jokes.

not something I'll be watching but I noted it's described as a comedy. Trouble is, we are seeing men competing against women to ensure they win and it isn't the least bit funny is it.

www.imdb.com/title/tt30216176/

I haven't seen this, but it looks interesting. The reviews veer between 'awful' or 'transphobic rubbish' to 'refreshing comedy that laughs at the absurdity of grown men pretending to be women to win at sport'. (I paraphrase in both cases). I probably won't go to see it, but I'd be interested to hear what people on here thought if they do see it.

It’s a bit like when a barrister asks a leading question and the judge instructs the jury to forget the answer.

Glorianny’s slurs, insults and attacks on this thread have come thick and fast, and whilst they often ensure deviation from an awkward question they add nothing to the debate.

It would be preferable if Glorianny employed some diligence (easily done) before casting unfounded allegations at people. For some any effort is too much, and it's so much easier to just twist, lie and libel and then do a "mea culpa' if you're caught out!

Smileless2012

Thank you Glorianny.

You can thank her for her apology, but like the redtop headlines that influence so many, her initial, totally unfounded accusation to you (which has now been transferred to me) is all some would read and remember. It's not the first, second or even third time Glorianny has condemned someone wrongly. Still never mind, an extremely late apology fixes everything!

Glorianny

Smileless2012

I think you have the wrong poster Glorianny. Without trawling back through the thread to check, I'm pretty confident that I've made no reference to CS and her partner having children, veiled or otherwise. If I am wrong then show me where.

Once again you are accusing me of being racist and anti trans; evidence please. Not your opinion but evidence.

My apologies Smileless2012 I fear I have confused you with Rosie51 but with attacks coming from many sides it is sometime difficult to sort out who has said what. I withdraw any allegations and ask you to accept my sincere apologies.

And what Glorianny fails to say is my post said that CS was now happily married to a beautiful woman and had two children. Glorianny put her own biased, nasty interpretation on that comment but then she never owns her own bias, prejudice and downright aggression. I'll fully quote my only post that mentions CS, wife and family.

I should add that if Caster Semenya truly believed they were female, then of course it's momentous for Caster to find out they are male. Fortunately Caster is married to a beautiful woman who has given birth to two children, so at least has a happy family life.

I think the implication is clear, I'm happy that CS has a happy family life with two delightful children. For the record I don't think it's necessary to be biologically connected to your children to be their true parent.

Galaxy

Sorry Glorianny the words you are racist or right wing have no meaning anymore. It's not going to work. I dont know about anyone else but I laugh every time I hear it.
It's up there with be kind. That ship sailed a long time ago.

I don’t laugh Galaxy, but you’re right. The meaning of those words or words like equality have been twisted so far out of their real meaning that it seems they’re just used ad nauseam to fill up posts promoting lies and as an insult to those who refuse to accept those lies.
I have been counting how many times posters refused to answer when the answer would mean admitting the truth that sex is immutable.
Examining how many different deviations could be dragged in to try and justify the lie that males should be allowed in female competitions, female safe spaces, female prisons etc.
How often the truth, that males, however they identify are not female has been, and continues to be ignored by some posters.

Thank you Galaxy. It is all in the playbook, isn't it?

And I think it's those who want to be 'down with the kids' who are being used, not those who can see through this whole shebang.

Sorry Glorianny the words you are racist or right wing have no meaning anymore. It's not going to work. I dont know about anyone else but I laugh every time I hear it.
It's up there with be kind. That ship sailed a long time ago.

Doodledog

I don't. And I don't underestimate other factions either.

And insinuating that people on these threads are like Trump supporters is a low blow, even for you. I come at this from a feminist perspective, not a MAGA, redneck 'pussy grabbing' one.

As for taking away rights we thought we'd won - words fail me.

If you read the link the Christian evangelical right wing groups are quite clear about using feminist groups to support their attacks on trans people. The event being written about was organised by Trump staff and Trump spoke at it.
You don't have the same objectives as Trump and his supporters, but `I fear that the results will be the same. I don't think you are like Trump supporters I fear that they are using you.

I don't. And I don't underestimate other factions either.

And insinuating that people on these threads are like Trump supporters is a low blow, even for you. I come at this from a feminist perspective, not a MAGA, redneck 'pussy grabbing' one.

As for taking away rights we thought we'd won - words fail me.

One objection I have is to your insistence that questioning the attack on women's rights is driven by a right wing Christian agenda, which is, IMO, nonsense. I honestly don't know what the endgame is here, but it certainly isn't to foreground women and children
The endgame for the Christian right is quite simple. Separate to attack. Transgender is the easiest target. It means they can ally themselves with those feminists who are acting against trans people. They choose to leave alone the LGB part of the alliance and concentrate on the T. Although their beliefs are deeply shocking and they link homosexuality with paedophilia.
This is from 2017 and things will have moved on since then
www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb

Trump knew exactly the sort of people he appealed to and where the base of his support stands on trans rights, gay rights and women's rights. He has proven to show no respect to any of those people, but the trans community is the weakest and the easiest to attack publicly. The rest can be done much more subtly by fixing things like the Supreme court and quietly taking away rights we thought were won. But the day will come when that attack will become more open once the easiest target is dealt with.
Don't underestimate the power of the far right Christian movement it has huge financial assets.

Thank you Glorianny.

Attacks? Glorianny?
You mean if people tell the truth, and ask whether you support that truth, it’s an attack?

Smileless2012

I think you have the wrong poster Glorianny. Without trawling back through the thread to check, I'm pretty confident that I've made no reference to CS and her partner having children, veiled or otherwise. If I am wrong then show me where.

Once again you are accusing me of being racist and anti trans; evidence please. Not your opinion but evidence.

My apologies Smileless2012 I fear I have confused you with Rosie51 but with attacks coming from many sides it is sometime difficult to sort out who has said what. I withdraw any allegations and ask you to accept my sincere apologies.

Did you read the link to the History Boys Doodledog if so you'll know that the appropriate response to trying to justify right wing extremist violence by referring to left wing violence is "It isn't a contest".
I agree that it isn't a contest, but didn't say it was - I said that regardless of left/right, extremism is bad. You are twisting my words again. One objection I have is to your insistence that questioning the attack on women's rights is driven by a right wing Christian agenda, which is, IMO, nonsense. I honestly don't know what the endgame is here, but it certainly isn't to foreground women and children.

I am not anti-'woke', where 'woke' means consideration, tolerance and inclusion, but when it means ignoring the needs of women, silencing or insulting anyone who speaks out, and excluding women by removing single-sex spaces and rigging sport (amongst other things), then I take issue. I am against 'woke' if it masks anti-semitism, anti-feminism and totalitarianism, which I fear is behind a lot of what is going on just now.

Again, language is important, and when we don't know what 'woke', 'inclusion', 'woman', man' or much else means, it makes debate very difficult. Which I think is deliberate.

Yes, the article is in the Telegraph. I'm not sure why I am supposed to justify that, but the fact is that I read a range of news sources, and don't denounce anything simply because of where it is published. I get a number of headlines delivered to my phone each day, and follow up ones that interest me regardless of the source, and this one chimed with both my views and the way this conversation has gone.

If you don't think that control is as much part of the extreme left agenda, 'have a think' about Stalin and Mao. I am definitely left-leaning politically, and have resigned from the LP because of the witch hunts of people in the left, but I am not talking about mainstream politics, but the extremes, which we haven't seen in the UK. If we aren't careful, however, and if we continue to mangle the truth, silence opposition, and slur, insult and patronise those who question, we are likely to find out what living under dictators is like.

Thank you Doodledog. Putting the needs of one group above those of another, which results in that group being discriminated against is of course wrong, and in the context of trans women (men) competing with biological women, is what we are discussing.

I agree that the pretence of acceptance, liberalism and I would add being inclusive from TRA's and those who support them is concerning and IMO so transparent that it amazes me that anyone can fail to see the real agenda here.

G says
Inequality is inequality
So wonder why you are so keen to
promote something that causes inequality Glorianny?

Do you really believe that allowing males to compete in female competitions, whatever the race or colour of either sex, is equality for both sexes?

A simple yes or no answer will do.
However, I suspect it will either be another of those unanswered questions or sidetracked by an attempt to bring in history or CS or remote villages.

Doodledog

That post was not about you, Glorianny. Just because you don't know anyone doing A B or C doesn't mean it isn't happening.

I should have realised that you would ignore the relevant bits of the post in favour of positioning the narrative to suit your politics. The point is surely that it doesn't matter whether the threat is from the right or the left - they are equally dangerous at the extremes, and very similar in their totalitarianism. Would you rather have lived under Stalin, Mao or Pinochet?

Did you read the link to the History Boys Doodledog if so you'll know that the appropriate response to trying to justify right wing extremist violence by referring to left wing violence is "It isn't a contest".

None of the people I know who you would consider far left (and I'm considered that by some) who actually believe in equality and would be considered "woke" have ever advocated violence. There may be a few who have.

But as I said it is the Telegraph, not a newspaper renowned for its support of the left,or for any commitment to equality for that matter. And if it isn't important where the threat is coming from why highlight the article? Which plainly shows a right wing bias. Only right wingers regard the word "woke" as an insult.
Inequality is inequality the basis for that inequality is largely irrelevant, the reason for it has always been that controlling the majority depends upon dividing the public into minorities and setting one against the other . Race, gender, religion, sexuality, environmentalism, it doesn't really matter divide and control has always been the right wing patriarchal mantra. Picking off groups one at a time is actively and openly the policy of right wing Christian extremism. That's how it has always worked.