disrespectful Rishi Sunak

Callistemon21

[sigh]

nanna8 in case you didn't know, but I'm sure you did, Scotland is part of the UK. We are all one country.

Never misses an opportunity …

Does this leader of our once great country think he's in a school playground? How disrespectful and childish. Apart from the marbles surely there are important things to discuss with one of our allies such as the wars in Ukraine and the Middle East. The marbles are part of Greek history, give them back so that the Greek people can enjoy their heritage.

DaisyAnneReturns

"Baity" GrannyGravy. Sunak is meant to understand the diplomacy and politics of these things, not act like a child.

He has created a diplomatic row. Why would he do that? He's like a small child stamping his feet because he can't be the one in the limelight.

Starmer has said, were he in power, he wouldn't block the loan agreement. He has also said he wouldn't change the law that stops the artifacts being given back to Greece. A pretty reasonable compromise in most people's view, which would also lead to the British Museum being able to put on interesting Exhibitions around loaned works from Greece. This is nothing new. Countries lend works to other Museums all the time.

Sunak is behaving like a small child who is rude to the visitors because they gave his brother a present as well and didn't single him out.

Did you see the Greek PM’s interview on Sunday morning?

He knew what he was saying, baity defiantly.

The meeting was arranged on the understanding that the matter of the Elgin marbles was not raised. Greece insisted on raising it so the meeting was rearranged. Sunak is being diplomatic not childish on this occasion. What the British government want is for the Greeks to stop saying we stole the marbles from them. We did not. They were obtained legally. If they ever acknowledge this they might have a better chance of getting them on display in Athens.

Not a distraction, simply facts. If Lord Elgin had not appreciated the value of the marbles, having spent years working on them, they would have been destroyed. He removed them legitimately.

Sunak is following his own agenda for reasons best known to himself but which do not inspire confidence in his leadership. The same applies to George Osborne.

DaisyAnneReturns

icanhandthemback

If what eazybee says is correct, I think it puts a rather different complexion on it. If I was given/sold something precious but in a state of disrepair and I resurrected it to its former glory, I would consider that it was my property. I might choose to "loan" it to somebody so that the world could view it but that would be at my discretion. Let's face it, if I had walked away from the item in question and left it to its face, the chances are it would not be in existence for the world to see.
However, I don't know enough about it but for me the most important thing is that they are maintained properly for future generations to see regardless of where they are.

If what eazybee says is correct, I think it puts a rather different complexion on it.

If you are going to look at the history icanhandthemback it's worth recognising the bias in eazybee's post and reading round it before you make up your mind.

Nice distraction from all the Tory bad news for Sunak though.

Oh that I had the time!

icanhandthemback

If what eazybee says is correct, I think it puts a rather different complexion on it. If I was given/sold something precious but in a state of disrepair and I resurrected it to its former glory, I would consider that it was my property. I might choose to "loan" it to somebody so that the world could view it but that would be at my discretion. Let's face it, if I had walked away from the item in question and left it to its face, the chances are it would not be in existence for the world to see.
However, I don't know enough about it but for me the most important thing is that they are maintained properly for future generations to see regardless of where they are.

If what eazybee says is correct, I think it puts a rather different complexion on it.

If you are going to look at the history icanhandthemback it's worth recognising the bias in eazybee's post and reading round it before you make up your mind.

Nice distraction from all the Tory bad news for Sunak though.

If what eazybee says is correct, I think it puts a rather different complexion on it. If I was given/sold something precious but in a state of disrepair and I resurrected it to its former glory, I would consider that it was my property. I might choose to "loan" it to somebody so that the world could view it but that would be at my discretion. Let's face it, if I had walked away from the item in question and left it to its face, the chances are it would not be in existence for the world to see.
However, I don't know enough about it but for me the most important thing is that they are maintained properly for future generations to see regardless of where they are.

I agree that they should be returned and according to BBC breakfast this morning, it had been agreed it would be discussed with Rishi and the Greek PM at their meeting, and he would not discuss it publicly, which he did during his interview with Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday.

It is not a bash Sunak day ronib. It's a will Sunak stop thinking like an entitled childish Aristocrat and behave diplomatically Day. But obviously that wouldn't fit as a Daily Mail headline.

This has caused a (small) diplomatic flare-up. Not big and not clever at a time when the UK needs all the friends it can get.

The Greek prime minister was offered a meeting with Oliver Dowden, the deputy pm.
I see the hand of George Osborne milking this - long time ally of one BJ.

Doesn't matter what the subject under discussion is , all roads lead back to Scotland and Westminster yawn! double yawn!

Yes absolutely The Marbles should go back, they were brought here when Greece was living under the auspices of The Ottoman Empire and, I believe, there were worries about their safety. Who knows? maybe that was just a pack of lies dreamed up by Lord Elgin.

I love the British Museum one of my favourite places in London, but personally I make a beeline for The Egyptian or the Assyrian Rooms and then the Celtic stuff, The Marbles never made me linger, but I'm sure they'd be much more interesting in situ. I hope they go back, I quite see the Greek point of view.

Greece is a key strategic partner, particularly, but not only, in relation to asylum seekers, which the Tories bang on about ceaselessly, so Sunak’s decision is politically naive as well as undiplomatic. Perhaps it plays well with the culture war fans in his own party and be blowed to Britain’s actual interests therefore.

He’s also annoyed me enormously by referring to the Elgin Marbles, rather than calling them their correct name which is (as the British Museum agrees) the Parthenon Sculptures. I realise lots of people still use the old name but they are not the Prime Minister, who really should know better.

He hasn't a leg to stand on..

"Baity" GrannyGravy. Sunak is meant to understand the diplomacy and politics of these things, not act like a child.

He has created a diplomatic row. Why would he do that? He's like a small child stamping his feet because he can't be the one in the limelight.

Starmer has said, were he in power, he wouldn't block the loan agreement. He has also said he wouldn't change the law that stops the artifacts being given back to Greece. A pretty reasonable compromise in most people's view, which would also lead to the British Museum being able to put on interesting Exhibitions around loaned works from Greece. This is nothing new. Countries lend works to other Museums all the time.

Sunak is behaving like a small child who is rude to the visitors because they gave his brother a present as well and didn't single him out.

ronib

According to Lord Vaizey, George Osborne as chair of the British Museum is the one to decide on the Elgin Marbles. Not even for Rishi Sunak to intervene - so is this just another let’s bash Sunak day as we don’t know why the meeting with the Greek pm was cancelled. Perhaps Rishi had an emergency dental appointment??

With so much happening in the world at the moment, wars, conflicts, the migrant situation both here and in Greece, I would have thought the Elgin Marbles could be something sorted out between the museums here and in Athens.
Is it really something that should be on the agenda of Prime Ministers?

NotSpaghetti it sounds like a case of "recollections may vary" 🙂

According to Lord Vaizey, George Osborne as chair of the British Museum is the one to decide on the Elgin Marbles. Not even for Rishi Sunak to intervene - so is this just another let’s bash Sunak day as we don’t know why the meeting with the Greek pm was cancelled. Perhaps Rishi had an emergency dental appointment??

[sigh]

nanna8 in case you didn't know, but I'm sure you did, Scotland is part of the UK. We are all one country.

Elgin bought them from the Turks ,he wanted to keep them at his home .Years later he sold them to the British museum ,apparently when he hit financial troubles , for less than he bought them for,
They should be given back
Nanna The British government is very good at telling other countries they can "look after their things better than they can themselves" they have been saying this to Scotland for centuries and more so since oil was discovered in SCOTTISH waters ...we have been told its "safer on the broad shoulders of the Westminster government" ....was it ? Is it ? Seems they squandered it when Norway built a massive oil fund .Still Britain sells licenses for oil fields in Scottish waters to pay THEIR debts .Its what they do

I think even these "historical facts" are still contested.

I don't know enough about it- but spoke years ago at some length to a scholar and a senior museum curator of such antiquities - he told me that much of the "documentation" is conveniently "missing", some is disputed and that the (known) original permissions to draw and take plaster casts did not appear to include cutting off works from the building.

His feeling was that work on items still in situ was to be undertaken on site and the permission to remove items was not including the works attached to the walls.

Obviously I can't remember the whole conversation but I'm not prepared to simply say these are legal and we should keep them.
There is some evidence that Elgin wanted them for himself.

Thank you eazybee, I should have read more about them.

Yes, it's time they were returned now, having rescued them, for which the Greek people are grateful, I'm sure, they now need to go back.

I think Rishi Sunak, like many of our current politicians, is disrespectful of Brits, never mind Greeks.

BTW, I have no opinion on whether the marbles should be returned to Greece. I'm sure there are very good reasons why they have not been. I'm also sure that Greece has very good reasons for wanting them.

I'm pretty sure it's not a simple right/wrong issue.

Thank you for the historical facts, eazybee.