Education versus money

growstuff

A hotel receptionist and a part-time worker probably don't earn enough to pay back their student loans. If they stay below the threshold all their lives they'll never pay them back.

The student loan is still a millstone and a waste if government resources when it could be spent on something more useful.

For many universities bums on seats is the main criteria, entry qualification is low, course content is poor, now even overseas student entry grades are being reduced to maintain numbers.

For some universitites and some courses, not many and many

If you are going to university, it needs to be to study something you want to study and either must have a clear career path, or you must be doing it because the subject fascinates you and you know and appreciate it will not give you a direct entry into any career.

As with everything in life. Realism needs to be the basis of any career decision, not wishful thinking.

A hotel receptionist and a part-time worker probably don't earn enough to pay back their student loans. If they stay below the threshold all their lives they'll never pay them back.

It depends on the student whether they take advantage of higher education.
If you are a triple A student that aims for a “first” of course go to university you will make a lot more. If you are a “B/C student going for the “Uni Experience” forget it you, are wasting your time, you should go to a technical college and learn a skill.

In my extended family 2 girls wasted 3 yrs then found there were no jobs in that field they now have student loans of £60k+ one is a hotel receptionist, one does part time catering, both returned to live at home. They would have done far better getting a job at 18 and training on the job, many graduates leave their degree off their CV to get any job

For many universities bums on seats is the main criteria, entry qualification is low, course content is poor, now even overseas student entry grades are being reduced to maintain numbers.

Someone else saying this A university education is no longer a guaranteed passport to wealth.

This has never been true and never will be. In the past most graduates became teachers of Clergymen, neither career known for tis wealth making opportunities.

I do not think that AI will put people out of work. Technology is doom has been promulgated since time began. Electric lighting put candlestick makers out of business, but opened up more jobs than it shut down.

DS, an academic has been looking at AI sourced essays. He and others are agreed that they produce unexciting essays, that stick to the middle safe ground and show neither any knowledge of most recent reearch or the way thinking in his discipline is moving. He reckons, no better than a 2;2 or 3rd class degree. Most students want better than that.

AI is only as good as the data it can obtain and someone has to generate the information first. Remember that old phrase for computers 'Garbage in, garbage out. That applies to AI as well.

Actually, now I'm retired I don't want to do any job at all! I'd like to study all the things I've never had time to study in the past.

Joseann

growstuff

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

Why wouldn't you like to do jobs of utilitarian value?

I didn't say I wouldn't like to do them, but are you seriously suggesting that nobody should study art, music or drama or learn about topics such as history?

There will still be a need to educate people to program all the clever AI bots.

growstuff

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

Why wouldn't you like to do jobs of utilitarian value?

There are some people who have other priorities rather than making squillions. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where the only objective is to make money and do jobs of utilitarian value.

Making money is about having the necessary skills of course but also having the right mindset, being able to take calculated risks and being prepared to work, work, work, to stay focussed on their goals, and to make sacrifices.
You've nailed it DerbyshireLass, plus you need to be in the type of job where your earnings can multiply accordingly. Lots of people work hard, but it's usually those in the hot seat who push themselves that extra mile in a relentless manner, who achieve high financial rewards.

God help us all !

When climate change really comes to bite and the environmental activists come into power life will change out of all recognition.

A university education is no longer a guaranteed passport to wealth. It can however open a few doors. After that, the rest is down to Attitude rather than aptitude.

I have worked with many multi millionaires, all self made business people. Many of them were dyslexic and had been written off by the educational system, told they were lazy and stupid. Some were simply square pegs who would never fit into the round hole that society allocated them. So they made their own way by doing it their way.

Making money is about having the necessary skills of course but also having the right mindset, being able to take calculated risks and being prepared to work, work, work, to stay focussed on their goals, to make sacrifices and to play a long game. And when they fail, as they inevitably will, the ability to start again, as many times as it takes. These are not necessarily skills acquired through formal education. They are personal skills and character traits, often honed by "the university of life".

All the muti millionaires I worked with had the same personal qualities, boundless energy and tenacity being the top traits. I often thought of them like terrier dogs who simply wouldn't give up until they reached their goals. And when they did, they just set themselves higher goals. By then it had little to do with financial reward, it was the thrill of the chase.

AI is going to be game changer and sooner than we might imagine. There will be a period of massive social upheaval, in fact it's already starting, Millions of jobs are at risk and a piece of paper will be no guarantee of protection. What will count are personal attributes such as flexibility, creativity and practical skills.

A good example can be found in the construction industry. Mid level architects will be thrown out of work because computer aided design can do their work in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost. However, when you want that house built, you will need hands on bricklayers, roofers, plumbers, electricians, joiners, plasterers, decorators, ground workers. Same with maintenance of existing properties. If you want a new ballcock fitted to your loo, your central heating boiler repaired or your roof fixed then you will need tradesmen who "work on the tools".

Eventually constriction too will change with more houses being factory built and the build process will become more automated but they will still have to be delivered to site and erected by human effort and there will always be a need for on going building maintenance as I mentioned above.

We are in for a period of massive change, a great reset, the social effects which we can't even begin to understand yet. I doubt very much that the old certainties such as stay in school, get a degree and you will be financially stable and successful in life will no longer be viable. I truly believe that ship has sailed.

I would say that, in the main, I suspect a university education will result in wider career choices and better long-term pay, though there will always be exceptions.

My husband has three separate higher level academic qualifications and professional qualifications in two disciplines - and in his work role he has had a significant (positive) influence on the country that will outlast his lifetime. (I know that’s true because I read it in a non-fiction book. 😁) Fortunately that was his goal, because the financial benefit has not matched the sacrifices he (we) made whilst he was studying for many years. On the other hand, three of my brothers-in-law have not been to university and all had excellent careers; one has his own business and is a (multi?) millionaire and the other two have very highly paid jobs and have substantial property holdings.

A friend of mine is a twin. He passed his 11+ , grammar school, university, good professional career .
His twin failed 11+ went to secondary modern school, left at 15 worked in an office but attended night classes and gradually passed his law exams.
He eventually became a successful solicitor and earned much more than his twin.
I agree this is just a nice anecdote but I rather like it!

Deedaa

DD went to university and got a degree and a PhD and now earns pretty good money, although she works long hours. Her brother dropped out, didn't even stay for A levels, has done a variety of jobs and is considerably worse off than his sister. My SiL went to university as a mature student, took an engineering degree and trained as a teacher. Last year he gave up teaching and took a job that involved shorter hours and more money.

It all depends what sort of life you want. I would just say that I don't think education is ever wasted.

I also think it depends what kind of person you are. Some people have a thirst for knowledge and an opportunity to study in depth. Somebody once told me that people can lose all their money, but they can never lose their education and I think there's truth in that.

M0nica

Anyone who needs to earn their livng is working class.

Which is most of us!

Well they have degrees in just about everything now and unless it is something like law, medicine or engineering I don’t believe it makes much difference. It may assist in getting the job in the first place ,though, if you have a qualification in that field.

Anyone who needs to earn their livng is working class.

Often it's not how much you earn that equates to your wealth . It's what you do with the money you get .
Education dose not always equate to intelligence , many are taught to spew out what they are taught , more intelligent to learn by using your own mind .

Norah

However, averages weren't the OP's question.

It's not an absolute that education yields a higher salary.

Working class could yield more money, education may yield more money. Either. Then there is job satisfaction...

Norah,, that absolutely was what the OP asked. Her exact words were:
Quote polomint Wed 10-Jan-24 14:31:15
‘Is it still true today that a good education leads to a better paid job or not‘

DD went to university and got a degree and a PhD and now earns pretty good money, although she works long hours. Her brother dropped out, didn't even stay for A levels, has done a variety of jobs and is considerably worse off than his sister. My SiL went to university as a mature student, took an engineering degree and trained as a teacher. Last year he gave up teaching and took a job that involved shorter hours and more money.

It all depends what sort of life you want. I would just say that I don't think education is ever wasted.

Some degrees are a waste of the students’ time and money.

However, averages weren't the OP's question.

It's not an absolute that education yields a higher salary.

Working class could yield more money, education may yield more money. Either. Then there is job satisfaction...