Surely this is a miscarriage of justice in itself?

Cold

It was the perfect storm for injustice - the same organisation (Post Office) was, in this case, the "victim", investigator and prosecutor. They also controlled access to all information and mislead both the High Court and the Court of Appeal that the computer system was working perfectly, without error and that the problems the Postmasters complained of, were impossible - although they knew that concerns had been raised within IT.

Plus, the Post Office benefitted financially from the situation as the money the Post Office claimed was "stolen" was actually sitting in Post Office accounts as payments that couldn't be traced. After a few years the Post Office took this money and claimed them as additional profits even though they bankrupted the postmasters to "repay the theft". Therefore the Post Office got the money twice.

Staggering injustice. I wonder if any of those responsible will be prosecuted and be punished accordingly.

Heartbreaking case of Stefan Kiszko, and too many similar.

nanna8

Thank the Lord they no longer hang people - hate to think how many innocents were put to death.

It doesn’t bear thinking about nanna8, horrendous.

M0nica

At the heart of this scandal is that the Post Office has the right to mount its own criminal prosecutions when it is also the victim and the investigator of the alleged offence.

This is is such an inherent injustice and so opens the door to systematic injustice that I cannot ubderstand why this danger was not seen years ago. Among the public bodies able to bring private prosecutions are the Civil Aviation Authority, the Health and Safety Executive, the Gambling Commission, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and the Food Standards Agency.

Surely some independent body should have to review the evidence before any corprorate body brings a private prosecution. In the PO case if that had happened an outside reviewer would have seen the pattern of what was happening and could have officially said that it wanted an independent review of the Horizon system before further prosecutions were mounted.

Absolutely, excessive power, abused at every stage. This needs to change starting with independent reviews to oversee all evidence before prosecutions can take place, for all of the organisations listed above.

The PO debacle was aired back in 2015 I think, on Panorama, but the recent drama has really set the country alight with absolute shock at the incredible injustices.

The number of people, and offences which might attract legal aid have both been cut drastically.

Grantanow

I think one clear outcome of the PO scandal is that full legal aid should be available to all defendants in criminal cases without regard to their financial circumstances. Defendants need access to the best lawyers, not the cheapest. Some postmasters who pled guilty would undoubtedly have been worried about the negative financial impact on their loved ones of paying for a full defence.

And when they lost I believe at least some of them had to pay the Post Office's legal costs.

I think one clear outcome of the PO scandal is that full legal aid should be available to all defendants in criminal cases without regard to their financial circumstances. Defendants need access to the best lawyers, not the cheapest. Some postmasters who pled guilty would undoubtedly have been worried about the negative financial impact on their loved ones of paying for a full defence.

www.barrybaines.co.uk/captivate-podcast/miscarriage-of-justice-stefan-kiszko/#:~:text=He%20was%20charged%20on%20Christmas,solicitor%2C%20Stefan%20retracted%20his%20confession.&text=At%20trial%20Stefan%20pleaded%20guilty,have%20made%20him%20behave%20unusually.

DNA evidence which could have cleared Stefan Kiszko was not presented to the court and was not, at that time, available to the defence.

Not only was Stefan convicted of a heinous crime he did not committ, spending a horrendous time in prison, the real child rapist and murderer was free to live his life.

Thank the Lord they no longer hang people - hate to think how many innocents were put to death.

Some great responses thank you, I have to go out but look forward to reading all again later. I love ‘slithery elites’ and will definitely be keeping that in my repertoire!

Chocolatelovinggran

Read The Secret Barrister for an insight into the criminal justice system and it's flaws. It's alarming.

Thank you. I should read this, though I’m sure it’s very disturbing …..

Oopsadaisy1

As you swear ‘to tell the truth the whole truth’ when you go into court, it makes a mockery of it all doesn’t it?

If you tell a lie in court it’s Perjury, it’s sad that to get a lighter sentence you have to lie on oath if you are innocent.

Yes, it’s this situation exactly. I know it’s not a perfect system by ANY means, but Oopsadaisy1 eloquently states the issue that I find really hard to believe goes on, and it must be happening ALL the time.

Unfortunately the 'slithery elite' (lovely image!), are in the sway of the Banks.
Make your own mind up about who influences the Banks themselves.

This whole sorry mess was about presenting a unified image of computerisation.
Whith digital banking on the horizon, it was necessary to give the public an introduction to a scaled down similar system.
Therefore, from the SE perspective, it was imperative we the public never get the opportunity to oppose it on any grounds what so ever

The outcome from the televised program is clear. If that hadn’t aired when it did those innocent people would still be fighting in the dark so yes it’s people power and about time. Though some are still having to shout for what is theirs…It beggars belief.

The ‘slithery elite’ rule this country for themselves and their peers and to hell with the rest of us. They’ve got away with it for centuries so I don’t see any major changes coming alone soon. Unfortunately.

At the heart of this scandal is that the Post Office has the right to mount its own criminal prosecutions when it is also the victim and the investigator of the alleged offence.

This is is such an inherent injustice and so opens the door to systematic injustice that I cannot ubderstand why this danger was not seen years ago. Among the public bodies able to bring private prosecutions are the Civil Aviation Authority, the Health and Safety Executive, the Gambling Commission, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and the Food Standards Agency.

Surely some independent body should have to review the evidence before any corprorate body brings a private prosecution. In the PO case if that had happened an outside reviewer would have seen the pattern of what was happening and could have officially said that it wanted an independent review of the Horizon system before further prosecutions were mounted.

Aveline

I'm wondering where all the extra money that these poor souls poured into the PO after being told they owed it went? Surely someone somewhere noticed that there was a huge extra pool of cash?

Yes, Vennells got her CBE for turning Post Office losses into profits.
The PO bosses have also now been accused of underpaying staff, overpaying themselves and not paying their taxes.

There have been many miscarriages of justice in this country; things should have improved since stricter laws came in regarding availability of evidence to the defence etc but sadly the Post Office seemed to operate its own justice (or injustice) system.

The post office and the government were hoping this would all go away but ITV have thrown a spanner in the works and they can't ignore public outrage.
It just shows what people power can do. The government is afraid of public unrest and some laws passed recently have shown that.
I hope the public will continue to support all those innocent people who have been treated so disgustingly and they will have recompense financially. Nothing will give them back what they have lost.
To answer the OP it is wrong for people to plead guilty when innocent to get a lighter sentence. Where is the justice in that.

has it, i wasn't aware of that.
i thought they considered each case on its 'merits'.

At least the law has been changed whereby they don’t take your board and lodging out of your compensation, how kind 😡

PS. And yes, Sasta. I agree totally. That too is disgusting.

The 'slithery elite'... a good description. I feel a huge rage against those people , treating people in this disgusting way.
I worked in a sub post office for five years in the 70's and the postmaster and his wife were lovely people. I'm so glad they retired before this all happened.
And people imprisoned and then found to be not guilty, there was a case recently wasn't there. I bet he is still waiting for compensation to be paid.
My blood is boiling right now for the huge injustice of all this.

The man who was accused of rape and was sentenced to 7 years, was not released for seventeen years because he refused to admit guilt, until he was found innocent due to DNA testing. He was awarded compensation, which the prison authorities tried to claim because' he owed them for board and lodging'.
Britain is run by what Allison Pearson described as a 'slithery elite., the band who move from well-paid job to sinecure, and at present they seem untouchable. Someone on the radio this morning was advocating prison sentences, and until these people are convicted and lose their status and money, they will continue to act this way, simply because they can.

As welbeck points out, if the court finds Guilty, there’s likely to be a longer sentence if a ng plea led to trial.

I would always advise against accepting a Caution, something offenders are offered to avoid a Court prosecution. It gives the person a criminal record, always in their record.

I think people plead guilty for a whole host of reasons Jo Hamilton was interviewed and asked if she would appeal her “guilty of false accounting” charge. She said no as she had falsified the account by accepting the horizon generated shortfall. She was guilty that charge. I think a lot of the sub postmasters are probably technically guilty in the same way. Although it is a miscarriage of justice if the charge is of itself a criminal act.

I'm wondering where all the extra money that these poor souls poured into the PO after being told they owed it went? Surely someone somewhere noticed that there was a huge extra pool of cash?