Surely this is a miscarriage of justice in itself?

DH mentioned this yesterday in relation to the Post Office cases. Innocent postmaster and mistresses were advised to plead guilty by their solicitors even though they (and presumably their solicitors) knew they were innocent, to avoid a prison sentence.
Unfortunately some still received custodial sentences.

Absolutely Callistemon21, it all seems so unfair. Obviously the PO scandal is utterly outrageous and exactly the same principle, people getting a criminal record they don’t deserve. But this seems to happen a great deal of the time.

but the sentence is likely to be higher if they have put the court to the trouble and expense of a trial, and are then found guilty.
so, it's a gamble.
their lawyer needs to advise them of likely consequences.
if the evidence stacks up towards a likely guilty verdict, it is in the defendant's interests to kind of mitigate the situation by pleading guilty at the earliest opportunity.

That’s true welbeck but still an awful shame for those who are genuinely innocent to have to do this in order to get a more lenient sentence.

Franz Kafka wrote The Trial in 1914. It's like he had a window into the victims of the Post Office.

^ The Trial is the terrifying tale of Josef K., a respectable bank officer who is suddenly and inexplicably arrested and must defend himself against a charge about which he can get no information.^

It was the perfect storm for injustice - the same organisation (Post Office) was, in this case, the "victim", investigator and prosecutor. They also controlled access to all information and mislead both the High Court and the Court of Appeal that the computer system was working perfectly, without error and that the problems the Postmasters complained of, were impossible - although they knew that concerns had been raised within IT.

Plus, the Post Office benefitted financially from the situation as the money the Post Office claimed was "stolen" was actually sitting in Post Office accounts as payments that couldn't be traced. After a few years the Post Office took this money and claimed them as additional profits even though they bankrupted the postmasters to "repay the theft". Therefore the Post Office got the money twice.

That’s interesting Puddycat, I haven’t read it. A nightmare prophecy.

Read The Secret Barrister for an insight into the criminal justice system and it's flaws. It's alarming.

As you swear ‘to tell the truth the whole truth’ when you go into court, it makes a mockery of it all doesn’t it?

If you tell a lie in court it’s Perjury, it’s sad that to get a lighter sentence you have to lie on oath if you are innocent.

I'm wondering where all the extra money that these poor souls poured into the PO after being told they owed it went? Surely someone somewhere noticed that there was a huge extra pool of cash?

I think people plead guilty for a whole host of reasons Jo Hamilton was interviewed and asked if she would appeal her “guilty of false accounting” charge. She said no as she had falsified the account by accepting the horizon generated shortfall. She was guilty that charge. I think a lot of the sub postmasters are probably technically guilty in the same way. Although it is a miscarriage of justice if the charge is of itself a criminal act.

As welbeck points out, if the court finds Guilty, there’s likely to be a longer sentence if a ng plea led to trial.

I would always advise against accepting a Caution, something offenders are offered to avoid a Court prosecution. It gives the person a criminal record, always in their record.

The man who was accused of rape and was sentenced to 7 years, was not released for seventeen years because he refused to admit guilt, until he was found innocent due to DNA testing. He was awarded compensation, which the prison authorities tried to claim because' he owed them for board and lodging'.
Britain is run by what Allison Pearson described as a 'slithery elite., the band who move from well-paid job to sinecure, and at present they seem untouchable. Someone on the radio this morning was advocating prison sentences, and until these people are convicted and lose their status and money, they will continue to act this way, simply because they can.

The 'slithery elite'... a good description. I feel a huge rage against those people , treating people in this disgusting way.
I worked in a sub post office for five years in the 70's and the postmaster and his wife were lovely people. I'm so glad they retired before this all happened.
And people imprisoned and then found to be not guilty, there was a case recently wasn't there. I bet he is still waiting for compensation to be paid.
My blood is boiling right now for the huge injustice of all this.

PS. And yes, Sasta. I agree totally. That too is disgusting.

At least the law has been changed whereby they don’t take your board and lodging out of your compensation, how kind 😡

has it, i wasn't aware of that.
i thought they considered each case on its 'merits'.

The post office and the government were hoping this would all go away but ITV have thrown a spanner in the works and they can't ignore public outrage.
It just shows what people power can do. The government is afraid of public unrest and some laws passed recently have shown that.
I hope the public will continue to support all those innocent people who have been treated so disgustingly and they will have recompense financially. Nothing will give them back what they have lost.
To answer the OP it is wrong for people to plead guilty when innocent to get a lighter sentence. Where is the justice in that.

Aveline

I'm wondering where all the extra money that these poor souls poured into the PO after being told they owed it went? Surely someone somewhere noticed that there was a huge extra pool of cash?

Yes, Vennells got her CBE for turning Post Office losses into profits.
The PO bosses have also now been accused of underpaying staff, overpaying themselves and not paying their taxes.

There have been many miscarriages of justice in this country; things should have improved since stricter laws came in regarding availability of evidence to the defence etc but sadly the Post Office seemed to operate its own justice (or injustice) system.

At the heart of this scandal is that the Post Office has the right to mount its own criminal prosecutions when it is also the victim and the investigator of the alleged offence.

This is is such an inherent injustice and so opens the door to systematic injustice that I cannot ubderstand why this danger was not seen years ago. Among the public bodies able to bring private prosecutions are the Civil Aviation Authority, the Health and Safety Executive, the Gambling Commission, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and the Food Standards Agency.

Surely some independent body should have to review the evidence before any corprorate body brings a private prosecution. In the PO case if that had happened an outside reviewer would have seen the pattern of what was happening and could have officially said that it wanted an independent review of the Horizon system before further prosecutions were mounted.

The outcome from the televised program is clear. If that hadn’t aired when it did those innocent people would still be fighting in the dark so yes it’s people power and about time. Though some are still having to shout for what is theirs…It beggars belief.

The ‘slithery elite’ rule this country for themselves and their peers and to hell with the rest of us. They’ve got away with it for centuries so I don’t see any major changes coming alone soon. Unfortunately.

Unfortunately the 'slithery elite' (lovely image!), are in the sway of the Banks.
Make your own mind up about who influences the Banks themselves.

This whole sorry mess was about presenting a unified image of computerisation.
Whith digital banking on the horizon, it was necessary to give the public an introduction to a scaled down similar system.
Therefore, from the SE perspective, it was imperative we the public never get the opportunity to oppose it on any grounds what so ever

Oopsadaisy1

As you swear ‘to tell the truth the whole truth’ when you go into court, it makes a mockery of it all doesn’t it?

If you tell a lie in court it’s Perjury, it’s sad that to get a lighter sentence you have to lie on oath if you are innocent.

Yes, it’s this situation exactly. I know it’s not a perfect system by ANY means, but Oopsadaisy1 eloquently states the issue that I find really hard to believe goes on, and it must be happening ALL the time.

Chocolatelovinggran

Read The Secret Barrister for an insight into the criminal justice system and it's flaws. It's alarming.

Thank you. I should read this, though I’m sure it’s very disturbing …..