Trump

Oh dear oh dear, Urmston, "Chump inspires me" -- well, you'd have to look in a mirror to see why the 'pussy grabber' might do that? Your "I don’t even think it’s anything in the Manchester water as he has many millions of supporters! I’ve seen them on tv" --- that suggests you have some issues, as few of his voters/fans would have been taking the Manchester water?! Huge chunks of America would vote for a giraffe if it was wearing the right rosette, many States are historically entrenched for a given party (unless one guy stands out), and so most elections are decided by about 6 States.

Chump didn't do that well in his term, hence alienated some of his fans, who are sufficiently gullible to believe that MAGA nonsense (you have to understand how insular and ill-informed a mass of their voters are).

He's also as corrupt as any modern-day PoTUS, far more than most, and of course very few have tried to stage a revolution to cling onto power. That will count against him with a number of voters (the Dems campaign may just remind them?!) and so will his attempts to change 'Obamacare' -- seek out any of several TV i'views with some of his poorer, sicker voters, who hadn't realised they were voting for someone to make their lives even worse, while people who are quite well off get some more help. The films were quite funny to watch, but the people seemed rather upset, as they were finding out the hard way their hero wasn't going to make THEIR America great again - but much worse.

This is a multiple bankrupt, who boasts of his business skills -- and in the past has gloated about rooking his investors & debtors when recovering from those failures, paying a few cents on the dollar.

Oh, and he's an inveterate liar, maybe you're a fan of his obvious lies, as with this Stormy thing, at the start "never heard of her, affair? - certainly not", then (when pictures came out) "oh, yes, might have met her, but I see so many", followed by "payoff?, no absolutely not, why would I", and coming along a week or two later, "oh, OK, the lawyer paid her off, I knew nothing about it", then the (almost full circle, when told that was illegal), "oh, no, not the lawyer, I paid her off, my money, yes, that was it".

So, he definitely, he himself, paid off the broad that he definitely hadn't met? Got all that? And that payment, that was for not having an affair, definitely not. Poor girl needed a new dress, & shoes, what's a guy to do?

And such a lovely guy, he's actually on record some 20 years ago when writing that it's their own fault that poor people are poor, they're stupid.

Sadly, the US system sometimes gives the public 2 lemons to choose from, and guess what, they end up picking one. Biden actually has done quite well, the economy has flourished, but with image counting for so much, his doddery appearance may get voters to forget that Chump is only slightly younger. I'm sure the campaign will remind them of the corruption charges (all quite justified) and the Capitol fiasco, and there'll be some campaign ads with Chump claiming he'd never met Stormy (that whole saga had him on film, making progressively more damaging admissions).

Another key point that could lose him some important votes is amongst some of the women that had seem thrilled by him, and that's his support for the recent abortion changes, a fiasco of a policy.

Oh, and on the female front, who knows, the Dems may persuade Michelle Obama to get on board as Vice-President candidate, to show the public that someone credible - and charismatic -- is waiting if Joe gets elected and either falls off the perch, or has to go into care. Whatever Chump's bluster, his chances go into a major slump if she gets involved!

[Let me know about that Bridge opportunity I mentioned . . .]

I think there are misunderstandings on here (and elsewhere) about the way NATO is funded.
No-one owes the USA (or NATO). It's just Trump talking rubbish again.

Iam64

Urmston - Trump. Was wrong about so many things. He’s dangerous. And seriously, how could anyone, self respecting women especially, vote for a man who boasted about grabbing their pussy, they;ll let you do anything
The leader of the free world - heaven help us

I think URMS is seeing in Trump what she wants to see.

It's not difficult to rationalise faults in an individual if they 'hit the spot' so to speak.

Maybe to some admirers, his "pussy-grabbing" rhetoric - and indeed, his pussy-grabbing days - are all in the past, and not part of who the man is now. I think it was, at the time of its revelation, written down by some as boys'-locker-room-talk'.

That is the only reason why I can believe that otherwise civilised women would find him tolerable. And I'm sure URMS is 'civilised' .

But, like you - I do think he's dangerous. And it's not simply an issue of not liking his politics; I believe the man is incapable of self-reflective awareness because his ego prevents him from ever accepting that he might be wrong. In a politician, that's worrying, in a world-leader, it's frightening.

Any attempt to hold him to account appears to send him into a rage, he cannot tolerate criticism. The timing of his tweets / Truth Social comments - where he lambasts his opponents and critics, indicate that he's not infrequently up half the night - this is not the behaviour of a stable personality. It's not healthy.

His belief in himself - spurred on by his admirers and supporters - is so intense that I think he now sees himself as some sort of demi-God or Guru who is going to put right all the ills - both imagined and real - that plague America. But not out of a love for mankind, rather from malice and spite.

He talks more like a gang-leader than a world-leader and, to me, he has all the makings and markings of a tyrannical dictator.

"Even Bret Stephens, NY Times columnist and virulent “Never-Trumper” wrote a piece 2 weeks ago titled, "The case for Trump – by someone who wants him to lose". - it's worth a read!"

Bret Stephens is a NYT opinion writer, not a columnist, it's his job to write articles that divide opinion so that readers, regardless of where they stand, read on and contribute to debate. It doesn't mean he believes any of the stuff he writes, it's about a headline that gets people to read the article. Interestingly he's a climate change denier so IMHO therefore not very good at understanding basic data, he's also a political conservative so won't be a Biden fan.

Iam64

Dickens

Iam64

Dickens. - I’m absolutely with you on Trump.
Please don’t ever suggest that urmstongran’ s pro Trump views are the result of our Manchester water. I’m over the M60 from urmston, share the same Manchester water as do my family and friends. We share a loathing and mistrust of Trump so it isn’t the water that makes urmstongran have her odd views where Trump is concerned

I think it was Dr Watson who had 'thoughts' about something in the water, the thought never occurred to me!

Dickens sincere apologies - I omitted to add “dr Watson, please don’t ….etc)
I think I need to take a break. I’m muddling things as I try to type quickly with a painful fractured right shoulder that makes it difficult 😞

... as I try to type quickly with a painful fractured right shoulder that makes it difficult 😞

Ouch!

I don't like him.

Urmston - Trump. Was wrong about so many things. He’s dangerous. And seriously, how could anyone, self respecting women especially, vote for a man who boasted about grabbing their pussy, they;ll let you do anything
The leader of the free world - heaven help us

Dickens

Iam64

Dickens. - I’m absolutely with you on Trump.
Please don’t ever suggest that urmstongran’ s pro Trump views are the result of our Manchester water. I’m over the M60 from urmston, share the same Manchester water as do my family and friends. We share a loathing and mistrust of Trump so it isn’t the water that makes urmstongran have her odd views where Trump is concerned

I think it was Dr Watson who had 'thoughts' about something in the water, the thought never occurred to me!

Dickens sincere apologies - I omitted to add “dr Watson, please don’t ….etc)
I think I need to take a break. I’m muddling things as I try to type quickly with a painful fractured right shoulder that makes it difficult 😞

just take a step back, be honest. He was kind of right about NATO. Kind of right about immigration. He grew the economy quite well. .... Tax reform worked. He was right about China. ... I don’t like how he said things about Mexico - but he wasn’t wrong about some of these critical issues. And that’s why they’re voting for him.

Even Bret Stephens, NY Times columnist and virulent “Never-Trumper” wrote a piece 2 weeks ago titled, "The case for Trump – by someone who wants him to lose". - it's worth a read!

Iam64

Dickens. - I’m absolutely with you on Trump.
Please don’t ever suggest that urmstongran’ s pro Trump views are the result of our Manchester water. I’m over the M60 from urmston, share the same Manchester water as do my family and friends. We share a loathing and mistrust of Trump so it isn’t the water that makes urmstongran have her odd views where Trump is concerned

I think it was Dr Watson who had 'thoughts' about something in the water, the thought never occurred to me!

Tamayra

Agree He’s a good negotiator Will get heads of government around the table rather than have fingers hovering over nuclear buttons

Do you mean that Trump is a good negotiator? If so, I have to disagree. The president of the US, regardless of who he is, will get heads of govt around a table because of the position he holds, unfortunately Trump's style is one of bullying not negotiation so he achieved very little during his term as POTUS except to alienate people. The United States, Russia, the UK, France, China, Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea are considered to be nuclear powers, can you point to anything that Trump did that made nuclear war less likely? I can't, quite the opposite in fact.

Agree He’s a good negotiator Will get heads of government around the table rather than have fingers hovering over nuclear buttons

Good morning urmstongran, hope you had a nice breakfast. Come on, confess.....you are enjoying winding people up on GN with your admiration of Trump aren't you! Who's next? Iron man Putin?

Dickens. - I’m absolutely with you on Trump.
Please don’t ever suggest that urmstongran’ s pro Trump views are the result of our Manchester water. I’m over the M60 from urmston, share the same Manchester water as do my family and friends. We share a loathing and mistrust of Trump so it isn’t the water that makes urmstongran have her odd views where Trump is concerned

Goodness - up and at ‘em first thing on a Saturday morning Dr Watson! You must feel as keen about Trump as I am - but in the opposite direction! 😁 I know about his draft dodging bone spurs (I read about that years ago, as did most of us I bet - old news). I’m not saying Trump doesn’t have feet of clay I’m not blind, but he does have a strong personality. China, Iran and Russia won’t know which way he will jump. He’s outspoken (not a politician by nature) so he unsettles world leaders by calling them out.

Trump didn’t start any wars (all his naysayers said he would). He negotiated the Abraham Accords which even Democrats (well some anyway) agreed this was a great achievement. He called out EU leaders over their miserable NATO subscriptions and that jigged their consciences.

To back up my support for him I suppose I could Google ‘good things done by Trump as POTUS’ or some such but to be honest that seems too much like homework!
#lazygran

This is why I said he was like Marmite. You hate him (with a passion it seems) and I like him. I don’t even think it’s anything in the Manchester water as he has many millions of supporters! I’ve seen them on tv. Bet you had too. Not all farmers, rednecks and rust belt left behinds either. Many young, articulate voters are engaging with Trump now. Maybe they are fed up of the Democrat liberalisation of drugs - fentanyl (or whatever it is) users crashed out on the sidewalks, Tent City in California. Hasn’t Silicon Valley moved out to - is it Texas? - better tax rates - Republican state. Can’t exactly remember but as I said, this isn’t a dissertation. It’s my liking for the man. And yes, I do get it, you and nearly everybody on here hates the man. But there we go. Democracy at work eh? I don’t vote there, I’ve only been over to the USA once twenty years ago for a long holiday, but Trump inspires me. He has energy and vision. And if re-elected I think he’s learned some lessons and would make an even better POTUS this time around.

Eeh - look at the time! it’s time for my breakfast I can’t sit here chatting all morning. It’s been informative and enjoyable though so thank you for engaging with me!
😊

"Froth by Dems" Urmston? Find (U-Tube) the documentary which analysed zillions of hours of assorted film footage re the attempted Capitol rebellion, showing with precise timelines Chump clearly encouraging his assorted far-right support groups.

At a trial last year of the far-right 'Proud Boys', four members, including former leader Enrique Tarrio, have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy for their role in the January 6th US Capitol riot. A fifth co-defendant was found not guilty of seditious conspiracy.
The verdicts came after a trial lasting nearly four months.
Seditious conspiracy carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison, and each defendant was convicted of multiple additional felonies. All five were convicted of obstructing an official proceeding, which also carries a maximum 20 year sentence.

Defense attorneys in the trial consistently laid the blame for the riot at the feet of Trump himself, many mentioning the former president in their opening and closing arguments.
Tarrio's attorney, Nayib Hassan, was even more explicit, telling the jury in closing arguments that "it was Donald Trump's words, it was his motivation, it was his anger that caused what occurred on January 6."
"They want to use Enrique Tarrio as a scapegoat for Donald Trump and those in power," Hassan said.

Yes Urmston, SUCH a 'patriot' . . . .and IF you're actually daft enough to believe his persistent blathering about "stolen" (election), DO read on >>>> Senior GOP figures round the USA had been conceding - after talking to State officials - that the result was fair. Chump & GOP's massive legal resources couldn't find much evidence to back up repeated fraud claims, hence they lost all but one of over 60 lawsuits (some in front of GOP judges, even Chump appointed ones) due to "lack of evidence", and they lost all their attempted suits in the Supreme Court, which has a famous Republican bias,same answer, lack of evidence.

Several hand recounts in close contested key States found . . . .next to no differences in the original count. NB After the 2016 vote, when Chump & Pence had been claiming voter fraud (in case they lost) after they won they set up a Commission to investigate that fraud. They soon disbanded it, because, it DIDN'T FIND ANY.

Soooooo "patriotic" . . . .

Oh dear UrmstonGran, yet more of this deluded babbling re Chump. Is it something funny in the Manchester water, perhaps? I know someone, if you're that gullible, can put you in touch with someone who can let you have a 5-year exclusive contract for the tolls from that big San Francisco bridge, just £500 to you, let me know.

Re your assorted nonsense :- "Trump is Marmite. I happen to like both.
He is a patriot. Not a dyed in the wool politician with all the wheeler dealings that involves. He’s not afraid to speak his mind and gets things done.

He really does put America first. He’s strong and charismatic. A powerful man in many ways. He says what the American people (who haven’t benefited from the trickle down effect) who feel overlooked want to hear. “Drain the swamp”."

I'll demolish that stuff in turn, 1) he is NOT a "patriot", he was established as a 'draft dodger', with alleged 'bone spurs', yet played various sports in college. 2) one of the funniest bits of TV I've ever seen was him on Letterman in 2015, just as he was building up to mount a campaign, having spotted a gap in the Republican (GOP) ranks and so swerved away from the Dems, where he'd been snuggling up to the Obamas.

On that show, Letterman seized on his oft-said slogan about "I Lurrrrvvvvve American Workers". He got out from behind his desk some shirts and ties from the Chump Exec Clothing range, and said "where are these made"? Chump suddenly looked uneasy, "er, not sure, can't remember" (yeah, right!).
Letterman said "well, let's check", and started taking off the packaging. He admired the quality, and as Chump looked increasingly unwell, ("sure you can't remember"?) revealed that the labels said Taiwan, and Bangladesh. Chump, while looking like he'd swallowed some broken glass, could only say "you got me".

3) "gets things done"?? WHAT did he "get done" in that 4 year term? He made it easier for polluters to operate, and EASED gun controls (that went well?!). In the Covid outbreak, the Cretin recommended swallowing BLEACH! (only a few deaths). Oh, and he vastly increased the National Debt, and in his efforts to increase 'Protectionism' got CRITICISED by union leaders for REDUCING jobs in certain industries. Well, I suppose that counts as "gets things done" . . .just not very well.

4) "Drain the Swamp"? Oh dear. He actually hired about half of Goldman Sachs, he didn't "drain" any swamp, but poured in more sleazy water.

5) You liked his racist stuff about cheap foreign labour (USA couldn't function without huge amounts of it)? His barmy "Wall" plans were soon exposed as costing huge sums for no effect, and he was filmed making a wonderful speech, referring to "El Paso, they've got a great wall, works very well". Within minutes puzzled residents of El Paso were on social media saying "WHAT wall -- we haven't got a wall". AND THIS UrmstonGran, is your "strong charismatic leader"???

6) Still on the foreign labour point, he made various speeches insulting Mexicans & other Latin Americans, blaming them for all American crime (no home-grown Americans ever get jailed for drug dealing . . . .), BUT his own family wineries tried to get MORE cheap latino labour for themselves! Such a principled guy . . . .

I can do more . . . .lots more . . .your "froth manufactured by Dems" is an especially easy target!! Tata for now.

There is no way that Trump would be capable of making a speech of the calibre of Bidens. I remember how enthralled I was by his speech when he was elected. We need politicians with experience at this moment in time.

Urmstongran

Hours of prep and some amphetamines got him through the shouty speech .. this man isn’t capable of holding his office. So who is running the US?

Obama from his Washington home? This is why some folk are calling Biden’s presidency ‘Obama’s 3rd term’.

“ some folk…” ….Translation = you mean Trump!
If you only listen to what he says you’ll never understand the truth til it’s far too late!

Urmstongran - just wondering if you actually listened to the SOTU speech?
I didn't hear anything "shouty" except from the hecklers.

Thanks Wyllow3 for posting the Guardian article …I think Biden’s quote at the end of his speech said it all really =
I may not look like it, but I’ve been around a while,” Biden said, prompting laughter from the audience. “My fellow Americans – the issue facing our nation isn’t how old we are, it’s how old are our ideas? Hate, anger, revenge, retribution are the oldest of ideas. But you can’t lead America with ancient ideas that only take us back. To lead America, the land of possibilities, you need a vision for the future and what can and should be done. Tonight you’ve heard mine.”

Trump is promoting hate, division, retribution and the promise of a Putin type USA…and vote him in and that’s what you’ll get!
As for Biden being on amphetamines as posited by the egregious Trump, there was no sign of that ( did you actually watch it Urmstongran ?) and Trump usually projects what HE does on to others…?
Ditto with foxie48. I’m not American but am following all sides arguments with avid interest, even so I am still amazed so many can be taken in but a Grifter and Conman who looks after No-one but HIMSELF.

Thank you suelld - I just didn't have the energy tonight to post anything "thought out and explanatory" about the conspiracy theorist pretending to be rational, sensible and reasoned - Kennedy Jr - I have a good friend who is totally taken in by him... and I expect others will be.

maddyone

Obviously the fact that we look after asylum seekers will be a pull factor in their decision to come here. However I’ve seen it reported recently that a few have been so disappointed that they’ve decided to go back to France (I’m really not sure why they want to go back to France because they certainly don’t look after them there.) To be honest I’m not that sure how many are wanting to do this, but maybe the EU is a pull factor as they can move freely around there, especially if eventually they get citizenship.

Thanks for an informative, and sane, post.

I'd heard the "£40-a-week" myth too, so also looked it up. The impression that some were attempting to promote was they they were living in 5-star-hotel luxury and being given that £40 on top of it.

I'm sure they are a deal more comfortable than they would be hanging around in makeshift camps in France and elsewhere, but this kind of deliberate rumour mongering in order to stir things up really does not help to deal with the situation.

I didn't do as much research as you, so thanks for taking the time to do it.

I subscribe to the Washington Post, watch CNN and listened to what was on the World Programme last night of Biden's speech. I'm not American, I don't have any connections with the US but I, like so many others on GN understand how important America's foreign policy is to the world and in particular Europe. Why any UK citizen would think having Trump as POTUS would be a good idea is, frankly, beyond me. He was, and still is, a very dangerous loose cannon without any long term strategy. Apologies to Gundy who clearly is politically savvy, but many Americans don't have a world view because they never leave America. tbh When travelling I've yet to meet an American who voted for Trump, they utterly despise him. I had a young American friend living with us for 6 months and one of the reasons she doesn't want to go home is her family are very wealthy Republicans and she's gay. How sad is that?The US voting system is quite badly flawed, rather like the UK, but the degree of gerry mandering boundaries is quite shocking. Perhaps Gundy could give us her take on this but basically who gets to be elected hangs on so few states. I do struggle to understand the electoral system so any help from an American would be appreciated.

(PS - it was Trump who accused Biden of taking amphetamines.)

reliable source?