Would you support National Service?

maddie I was thinking primarily of NATO nations, but yes Israel does have mandatory service for women and has done for some time.

This is what alarms me.
“In the 12 months to 31 March 2023 there was a negative net flow of personnel, meaning more people left the forces than joined. Intake was 11,090 while outflow was 16,510, so there was net decrease of 5,400 personnel”. If this continues to be the trend, we shall have no choice but to conscript.

Greyduster
Israel also have mandatory military service for both men and women.

Sago what I m trying to illustrate is hard work and difficult work conditions and situations are not just done by the last generation many youngsters do do jobs that a lot of men wouldn’t have wanted to do.
Being hardworking, strong and accepting difficult working conditions is not just done by the previous generation many young people do VERY challenging jobs and it unfair to make sweeping statements like this …..
My husband (ex army) thinks most of them wouldn’t last 5 minutes

We now have equality so I presume you intend sending women to do military service as well.

Not necessarily. Several European countries have mandatory military service for males, but AFAIK Norway is the only country where it is mandatory for both men and women. In The Netherlands all those of a certain age have to sign up to say they are available for military service, but they don’t necessarily have to turn up!!

Israel has military service, and that includes men and women.
I should think they feel they need to have military service in order to have a ready trained military because they are, and always have been, surrounded by enemies.

We’re not surrounded by enemies, but I deplore the underfunding of the military and I understand military chiefs are now saying that we would be unable to defend ourselves if the need arose. Regardless of national service, this is a deplorable situation and also a very worrying situation.

We now have equality so I presume you intend sending women to do military service as well.

petra

nanna8

No - would you want some of those nohopers representing your country? Best that they are people who actually want to serve and feel proud of their country!

No hopers 🤦🏼‍♀️
You’ve often mentioned your spirituality, your baptism etc etc.
Not a very Christian outlook is it?

I was waiting for that comment, didn’t take long. That is why I wrote it actually. You know full well what I mean. I wouldn’t want people pressganged into service as some means of correcting their bad behaviour. Fine if this is what you would like. Free country isn’t it ?

Doodledog I remember my son saying after his first session with the CCF at school, 'I will not be shouted at by these people'! Goodness knows who he thought he was.

Absolutely not.. My dad was the generation that did National Service, said total waste of time and 2 years of his life down the drain.

My DH is an Retired Military officer he's firmly against it, you have to enjoy your job not be forced into one especially in the services.

I agree with those saying that young people have been maligned on this thread. Most of the ones I know are not so much entitled as questioning, which is because our generation brought them up that way. I did with mine. I didn't want them to have the 'do as I say because I say so' childhood that I did. I can't pretend that at times I wondered if it wouldn't have been easier - both to expect instant obedience when they were children and automatic respect from the younger generation in general, but on the whole, I think it is healthier for them to understand why they are doing things, rather than do them because of 'standards', or duty, or 'just because', and that it was worth the extra effort.

karmalady

AGAA4

Most young people have been educated to a much higher level now than during the last conscription. They are not afraid of questioning authority and I doubt they would be willing to be subjected to national service. It's not because they are weak cowards but because they would rather use their education in a better way.

No they have not, quite a few have been brought up to be entitled because that was the easy way to `supposedly` parent offspring. It is hard work to be a good parent as in bringing up a well-rounded individual and too many parents opted out. We are now seeing the results

In my 40 years of teaching teenagers, I found the most entitled ones were those whose parents were part of the 'I pay your wages' brigade.
My limited dealings with 2 well-known public schools found them incredibly entitled.

NotSpaghetti

The "turning around" needs to happen in toddlerhood in my opinion.

We need to offer hope, education, security, better parenting and a better diet to give a new generation health, confidence and skills.
SureStart was just beginning to work in this respect when the funding was pulled.

As someone said upthread 18 is way too late.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Charleygirl5

I have a nephew by marriage who has never had a job in his life. He is provided with a council flat and enough money so he can slumber in bed until 2 pm. I doubt if he would survive a day, never mind a week. He is now in his early 30's. His mother has a degree, but he cannot read or write.

How very strange? Surely he must have additional needs? Most parents, especially more educated ones, ensure that their children know at least the basics of starting to read and write before they start school. I don’t really understand?

The "turning around" needs to happen in toddlerhood in my opinion.

We need to offer hope, education, security, better parenting and a better diet to give a new generation health, confidence and skills.
SureStart was just beginning to work in this respect when the funding was pulled.

As someone said upthread 18 is way too late.

Aveline

There seems to be such a problem with children at school behaving badly that it doesn't seem likely that they'd submit to discipline in the way they'd be required to by the forces.
That being said, look how wonderfully the Ukrainian men have stepped up in awful circumstances.

This isn’t ALL children though by any means, it’s a small minority and we hear about them more. Exactly the same as people on benefits, who could work, are also in the minority but our media just love stirring the pot and highlighting them.

Awful idea on so many levels, many of which already posted.

I have a nephew by marriage who has never had a job in his life. He is provided with a council flat and enough money so he can slumber in bed until 2 pm. I doubt if he would survive a day, never mind a week. He is now in his early 30's. His mother has a degree, but he cannot read or write.

I agree that the services need highly professional people who join because they want to. I don’t believe the younger generation, which three of our children are part of are “no hopers” I believe the majority of families bringing up children are normal decent people, but sadly we don’t hear about them, we hear lots about the minority of chaotic families with feral children, gangs, stabbings and drugs, but this isn’t reflective of most people and their families.

Karmalady the young people you know are polar opposites of the ones I know. They don't feel entitled at all. They understand the world we are living in. A dying earth, wars and unrest, housing problems and the usual older people who blame everything on the young.

Sago why on earth should the Forces, in particular the Army have to in your words turn young people around ?

The U.K. armed forces are professionals, not social workers or baby minders for naughty youths.

One of our sons is a high ranking officer in the armed forces, they really haven’t got the time to baby sit.

There seems to be such a problem with children at school behaving badly that it doesn't seem likely that they'd submit to discipline in the way they'd be required to by the forces.
That being said, look how wonderfully the Ukrainian men have stepped up in awful circumstances.

Yes, I agree Sago. A couple of years of routine can make certain people better citizens.
There are lots of countries that still have obligatory national service.

karmalady

AGAA4

Most young people have been educated to a much higher level now than during the last conscription. They are not afraid of questioning authority and I doubt they would be willing to be subjected to national service. It's not because they are weak cowards but because they would rather use their education in a better way.

No they have not, quite a few have been brought up to be entitled because that was the easy way to `supposedly` parent offspring. It is hard work to be a good parent as in bringing up a well-rounded individual and too many parents opted out. We are now seeing the results

Surely in many cases we are those parents? If we aren’t, we are the parents of those parents. We can’t blame ‘others’ for the way things are.

BlueBelle

No I don’t agree either

I also think your husband is very wrong about the average youth not lasting a minute Sago I bet your husband wouldn’t last a minute in the job one of my grandsons does

My husband may not be able to do the jobs of your grandsons but he’d have a damned good try.
The training my husband undertook in 1976 was gruelling even though he had 11 years of boarding under his belt and CCF training he found it very hard.
I really do believe the army can turn young people around, I’m sure they could do a better job than the prison service with minor offenders.

AGAA4

Most young people have been educated to a much higher level now than during the last conscription. They are not afraid of questioning authority and I doubt they would be willing to be subjected to national service. It's not because they are weak cowards but because they would rather use their education in a better way.

No they have not, quite a few have been brought up to be entitled because that was the easy way to `supposedly` parent offspring. It is hard work to be a good parent as in bringing up a well-rounded individual and too many parents opted out. We are now seeing the results