A four-day week will soon be the norm in the public sector.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Callistemon21

My daughter works in public service (a civil servant) and can work flexi-time.
I worked flexi-time but there were core hours when we were supposed to be there and it was over five days.
Occasionally working at weekends or Bank Holidays was necessary, sometimes working late when working to a deadline.

My daughter works for the National Crime Agency. Unfortunately, her "clients" don't work "set" hours - well, Michelle Mone and importers of child porn don't! The important issue is that the task is done - not when.

Well, there we have it!

Criminals don't work a four day week.

No, they don't, which is why flexi-time is ideal. Criminals certainly don't work core hours from 9 to 5. The issue is whether the tasks are done - whether five days a week or four days - the number of hours worked is the same.

I worked for a company that moved to a four day week 15 years ago. The working week was compressed to four days, early start, late finish. It was brilliant. It was a management initiative voted in by employees. It's hardly a new thing.

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

Some posters don’t understand the reality of some jobs. I don’t think there is anyone else here who can speak of my profession and the demands of its clients. I will say no more. You obviously know better than I.

My partner's solicitor, who's sorting out his divorce payments, doesn't work five days a week - I know that for a fact. She still seems to be a good solicitor and gets the job done.

Yes my cousin is also a solicitor and works a 4 day week. Perhaps time management is an issue where others can’t cope?

I can just hear some posters transported back 150 years and arguing that reducing the working week from 7 days @ 12 hours a day to 6 days @ 10 hrs would be completely impossible...😆

Over half my staff in the public sector now do a 4 day week (paid pro rata). But without exception if they took the hours back that they are owed they would all be working a 4 day week.

There is still 5 day a week access to services though? They just have different days off!

I’m sure there is a council down south that have trialled a 4 day week for the same 5 day pay and productivity and service delivery has surpassed what it was before the change.

People who are against it I feel are just stuck in their ways and the old “I had to suffer so so should you”.

Anything that gives people a better quality of life is a good thing. Public and private sector. The issue is for me that the public sector is kept going by its employees good will, that’s no way to sustain it.

I agree Babyshark especially about the public sector goodwill..

I feel that any 4 day week would be balanced to cover 5 days. I think staff would have a choice of which days to work and shift patterns would be drawn up to try to accommodate people’s needs. It wouldn’t impact on service but in my eyes it would help people struggling with the huge childcare costs. It would certainly be worth trying. These days people have a hard time trying to pay huge rents/mortgages and childcare.

It entirely depends on the type of work a solicitor does Whitewavemark. One doing the sort of work I did, and the sort of work my son and daughter in law do, could never contain it within four days. If I had been a divorce or probate lawyer or a domestic conveyancer I could have controlled the amount of work I accepted in order to contain it within fewer days, and most private individuals will accept, if told at the outset, that their lawyer doesn’t work on X day - if they don’t like it they go elsewhere. But that wasn’t what I did, and I worked for corporate clients who were very demanding and whose instructions were always accompanied by a deadline. If you want to keep those clients, and I did, you meet the deadline. They are the sort of clients who expect to be able to contact you at any time and that includes when you’re on holiday.

I thought there was a shortage of people available to work in the UK ? Two people working 2.5 days each a week on job share still get the job done. Can’t see why more part time working shouldn’t be increased where possible. Not every working mother wants full time work and some dads cope better with four days rather than five. Part timers might be better motivated to perform well as there’s a good work life balance and work is not taking over and causing stress. Just a thought….

My DIL is an engineer heading up a large department of an international company. She works her hours in the form of nine days over a fortnight.
Of course,there are times when this does not meet the needs of her clients- when she is abroad, for example, she does very long days to achieve the aim of the project as efficiently as possible. Sometimes she works odd hours from home, reflecting differing time zones.
The nine- day- fortnight does not impact on her performance. Maybe it helps to prevent burn out?

We have one job share position in our SME it is clerical/accounts one person works from home the other comes into the office.

When the computer is running as it should it is just about doable . Problems do arise when one person more or less works on certain areas, and answers are needed asap in their down day

As I said upthread I cannot see this working for our sales/repairs/delivery teams. Over the years our staff have built up trusted relationships with our customers and many prefer only to talk to their preferred staff member.

We have to have all our relevant bodies in the building when our customers are working wherever that may be. Our business is built on quick and personal service, if we were to ease down on this there are many sharks waiting to pounce.

Too true, GG.

Ours is a family business, our children were never even a little bit scared of me as mum, but have admitted to be wary of me when I was a full time fixture in the office when they were learning the ropes.

I am not sure if that is a failure or a win 🤣

Germanshepherdsmum

It entirely depends on the type of work a solicitor does Whitewavemark. One doing the sort of work I did, and the sort of work my son and daughter in law do, could never contain it within four days. If I had been a divorce or probate lawyer or a domestic conveyancer I could have controlled the amount of work I accepted in order to contain it within fewer days, and most private individuals will accept, if told at the outset, that their lawyer doesn’t work on X day - if they don’t like it they go elsewhere. But that wasn’t what I did, and I worked for corporate clients who were very demanding and whose instructions were always accompanied by a deadline. If you want to keep those clients, and I did, you meet the deadline. They are the sort of clients who expect to be able to contact you at any time and that includes when you’re on holiday.

So if they could contact you when you were on holiday, you might as well officially have worked a four day week - the clients could have contacted you on the fifth day anyway.

The way I understand four day weeks could work is that where a service is required those four days are worked in “shifts”, as many jobs currently work.

It has been proven for office based staff in both private and public sectors that four day weeks can be more productive.

Babyshark

Over half my staff in the public sector now do a 4 day week (paid pro rata). But without exception if they took the hours back that they are owed they would all be working a 4 day week.

There is still 5 day a week access to services though? They just have different days off!

I’m sure there is a council down south that have trialled a 4 day week for the same 5 day pay and productivity and service delivery has surpassed what it was before the change.

People who are against it I feel are just stuck in their ways and the old “I had to suffer so so should you”.

Anything that gives people a better quality of life is a good thing. Public and private sector. The issue is for me that the public sector is kept going by its employees good will, that’s no way to sustain it.

I completely agree. It’s just a different way of achieving the same, or in some cases better, services and outcome.

We all need to be prepared to embrace change, things can always be tweaked or changed back, but in order to progress we need to be prepared to try things and take measured risks. It’s all too easy just to say “this won’t work.. “ we never know unless we try it.

Doesn’t work like that growstuff. Clients of the sort I had expect you to be working a full week, and of course my job entailed supervising others in the office and working with other law firms and consultants - all of whom worked under the same conditions. By way of a small insight, I was involved in the construction of some well known London buildings and in the assembly of new settlements - you don’t get to do that kind of thing on a part time basis.

Cossy I can only speak and comment on how our business operates, and at the moment a four day week is impossible and will be for the foreseeable future.

We are currently in the process of recruiting, and it is nigh on impossible to get to the interview stage, let alone getting to employing a suitable candidate.

To operate on a four day week we would have to up our workforce by approximately 30-40%, this necessitates in house training, outsourced product training and then shadowing a member of staff until they reach an acceptable level of knowledge and confidence.

Working four days weeks isn’t the same as part time, of course it won’t work for every business or in all situations, but there are many places where it will and does work very effectively. I’m simply saying change isn’t always a bad thing and there are many ways to make this happen whilst preserving one’s professional reputation and service levels.

GSM I am so pleased not to have chosen a legal career having read your comments. However the fact remains that humans are dependent upon others for all kinds of services. I see law as a small part of human endeavour. Therefore if essential services are to continue in a scarce and reduced labour market, then flexible conditions are key.

I understand exactly what you’re saying GG. A four day week works for some but not others and it’s not a matter of ‘embracing change’ and ‘being prepared to try things’ when effectively clients dictate what they want and when, and you either dance to their tune or lose them to someone who will. It’s interesting looking at a thread started this morning about the time it takes to get a GP appointment, blood test and results, the poster being less than happy with the timescale - but of course so many GPs are working fewer than five days a week, and unless their patients can afford private medicine they just have to suck it up. Not so in the commercial world.

It is noticeable that those who are reluctant to embrace progress or change are all conservative with a small and larger “C”

That is why they are conservative.🙂

I can't see why it matters whether two people work 2.5 days, 3 work 12.5 hours each or one works full time. Equally, if someone can produce 10 widgets in 30 hours instead of 40, why not let them have a day off and still pay them for the 10 they have produced? When it comes to a service such as answering the phone, it should be easy enough to ensure that overall hours are staggered so that there is always someone available. If an employee is so specialised that only they can answer their line then presumably they have to be available all week, but they could still take calls from home. Even if not, they shouldn't block the right to work flexibly for others. I get sick of hearing the fact that not everyone can do something being used as a reason to stop anyone from doing it.

My job was such that at times I was working 7 days a week (eg during marking periods) and at others (eg over the summer) I was working an average of 3. I always got the job done, and on balance I'm sure I did more than contracted hours, but I would have been less inclined to do so if it had been a one way street.

If you are a bean-counting employer your staff will also count beans.

So yesterday we had cause to phone a company that has been extremely inefficient in sorting out something relating to my mother’s death, which happened in 2022. We asked for certain information, the response was ‘I can’t tell you that because I’m at home, I’d need to be in the office to be able to give you that information.’

I don’t agree with civil servants working from home. They should be in the office or wherever they work from, doing their jobs. And no, they shouldn’t be working a four day week unless they are classed as part time, and therefore paid part time rates of pay.

How would everyone feel about doctors, nurses, or teachers working only four days?
No, thought not!

There are areas of law in which flexible working is possible ronib, as I have said - but if you want the big-ticket commercial work, which is intellectually challenging and very lucrative, effectively you are your clients’ servant and you work the hours necessary to do the job within the deadline set (usually highly unrealistic but they know you will meet it because you want their continued instructions). If you want a fairly quiet life which doesn’t encroach on your free time you work in a high street firm for Joe Public for not a lot of money.