Gransnet forums

Chat

Trees Are Conscious

(86 Posts)
Caleo Tue 23-Apr-24 11:27:39

All things that strive to live are conscious.

Artificial intelligence things don't strive to live so those are not conscious.

keepcalmandcavachon Wed 24-Apr-24 10:17:30

Wonder just what the 'olden oaks' would make of mankind's progress during their lifetimes....

Caleo Wed 24-Apr-24 09:58:27

Witzend wrote:

"I will admit to feeling a little bit bad now and then, when I slice the little sprouts off a potato prior to peeling and cooking it. This is a living thing that could grow into a plant - and I’m killing it! "

Each of us must decide the values we live by, as that is the responsibility of adult human beings. Do you think that values are relative so that , for instance, it's less bad to kill and eat a plant than to kill and eat a sheep?

Neither the sheep nor the plant deserves to be killed and eaten, but the plant is less sentient than the sheep.

Callistemon21 Wed 24-Apr-24 09:54:23

We had to have a large tree cut down as it was becoming a danger but all of the summer afterwards, the roots kept sending up babies all over the lawn. It kept trying and trying to survive ☹

We did plant another tree.

Callistemon21 Wed 24-Apr-24 09:52:00

M0nica

Where does that leave vegans and those who do not eat sentient beings.

Curiously enough I read an article about the beginning of life on earth only this week that made me realise that all eating, unless you live on mineral matter uncontaminated by bacteria excepted. is predation

Where does that leave vegans and those who do not eat sentient beings.

Starving?
I suppose if you eat legumes then you're eating the babies of sentient beings.

I'll never look at a pea in the same way again!

I've never worried about digging sprouts out of potatoes. 😁

Witzend Wed 24-Apr-24 09:08:04

M0nica

Where does that leave vegans and those who do not eat sentient beings.

Curiously enough I read an article about the beginning of life on earth only this week that made me realise that all eating, unless you live on mineral matter uncontaminated by bacteria excepted. is predation

I will admit to feeling a little bit bad now and then, when I slice the little sprouts off a potato prior to peeling and cooking it. This is a living thing that could grow into a plant - and I’m killing it! 😱

GrannyGravy13 Wed 24-Apr-24 09:01:19

I have two conifers in my front garden, they are taller than my house, in the back I have a weeping ash, acers, two which I am unsure of their names and sambucas negris, I talk to them all.

I have filled the borders with shrubs most of which remain green all year round, not sure I could live anywhere without trees and plants.

M0nica Wed 24-Apr-24 08:22:23

Where does that leave vegans and those who do not eat sentient beings.

Curiously enough I read an article about the beginning of life on earth only this week that made me realise that all eating, unless you live on mineral matter uncontaminated by bacteria excepted. is predation

Astitchintime Wed 24-Apr-24 07:45:41

I do hope it survives JaneJudge. I bought a small acer some years ago - it was from one of those bargain outlets that sell everything.

I wanted to keep in in a pot so I could move it around on the patio. However, it was not at all happy in the pot so a space had to be found in the garden. It is now flourishing and it is such a joy to watch the bronze/red leaves moving on the breeze.

Goo luck with yours JJ smile

JaneJudge Wed 24-Apr-24 07:33:21

It is an acer sad

Callistemon21 Tue 23-Apr-24 22:09:22

JaneJudge

I cried because one of our trees looks like it has died in all this sodden weather over winter. So we’ve dig it up and put it in a pot 😭 to give it a chance please all 🙏 for it

Talk to it.

What kind of tree is it?

JaneJudge Tue 23-Apr-24 21:59:02

I cried because one of our trees looks like it has died in all this sodden weather over winter. So we’ve dig it up and put it in a pot 😭 to give it a chance please all 🙏 for it

Callistemon21 Tue 23-Apr-24 20:37:51

😁

MissAdventure Tue 23-Apr-24 19:57:15

It's probably sending out a warning.
"Watch out!! Mind your plums!!!"

Callistemon21 Tue 23-Apr-24 19:56:30

I typed wood-wide web but autocorrect knew better, sorry!

Callistemon21 Tue 23-Apr-24 19:55:39

As well as scent, pheromones etc, trees communicate through something known as the world-wide web - ie the fungi which grow along their roots.

We had to have an ash tree cut down in our garden, sadly, but still the fungi grow along the root system.
I'm not sure which other tree it's communicating with though. A plum?

MissAdventure Tue 23-Apr-24 19:51:01

CanadianGran

I believe scientists are on the fence about whether or not plants are conscious beings.

But I do believe that plants can communicate and react to stimuli, but on what level? Has anyone heard of the Japanese practice of forest-bathing? They say that spending quiet time within a forest can ease stress and help with depression. I know I have always found comfort amongst a wooded area, since I was a child.

Yes, I've heard of it, and found it interesting.
I think seeing ourselves as part of nature is always good for the psyche.

To know that we are "of it" instead of in charge of it. smile

pascal30 Tue 23-Apr-24 19:42:31

I believe they are sentient

flappergirl Tue 23-Apr-24 19:29:16

I think life on earth transcends the principles of consciousness through a brain or nervous system. I believe that all forms of life, from grass to humans are linked through a spirit of energy.

CanadianGran Tue 23-Apr-24 18:54:45

I believe scientists are on the fence about whether or not plants are conscious beings.

But I do believe that plants can communicate and react to stimuli, but on what level? Has anyone heard of the Japanese practice of forest-bathing? They say that spending quiet time within a forest can ease stress and help with depression. I know I have always found comfort amongst a wooded area, since I was a child.

Caleo Tue 23-Apr-24 18:16:20

Mollygo wrote:

"I remember being told that grass being mown sends anguished messages."

I think this is held to be true by scientists. Would you say a feeling such as anguish is a sign of being alive not dead , and a natural being not a computer?

Caleo Tue 23-Apr-24 18:11:26

AAGA4 wrote:
"I love trees. Whichever window I look out of there are trees. I think they must be conscious at some level."'
Like you, I believe that there are different levels of consciousness. Besides levels of consciousness, do you think there may be different types of consciousness?
You obviously have feelings for trees. Maybe we have to have feeling for things before we can understand them. AI devices can't have feelings . Am I right, and does this make AI potentially dangerous??

Caleo Tue 23-Apr-24 18:04:13

Winterwhite, I like your designation "trees/plants,

Trees/plants have neither brains or neurons. Maybe trees/plants have some other system for collating and learning from the information that they gather from their environments.

Caleo Tue 23-Apr-24 17:59:17

Winterwhite, I understand that vegetable systems don't have neurons but that such as trees and other vegetable things communicate by pheromones ,
but not by electro- chemical nerve action like animals do.
Should we respect trees and their lives even if they are different from us?

Perhaps trees and small annual plants that we see in gardens and hedgerows can experience what happens to them and others. Who knows.

Caleo Tue 23-Apr-24 17:50:12

Keeping quiet wrote:
"It will be a very long time until we can reproduce something as complex as a tree using AI though I suspect some will try."

I agree. Would you consider that consciousness is caused by complexity, or is there something else that only some living things have?

winterwhite Tue 23-Apr-24 17:50:07

Horses and fish have proven, identifiable brains. Can the same be said of trees/plants?