Our Welfare State. Is it broken?

Grandmabatty

I was a single parent, not by choice, and didn't apply for anything. I brought up two children alone and they turned out hard working, sensible members of society. As am I. I really don't like single parents, usually women, being stereotyped

Grandmabatty
I also detest this stereotyping of not just Women by Men as well .
I raised my Children by holding down 4 jobs at one time but never considered myself a ‘single parent’ as my Children had a father . He just didn’t live with them !

The government set out proposals to support disabled people into getting back to work, but we all know that there will never be the funding or the right people employed to do that job.
Nor will employers favour a candidate with health problems over a healthy person, so suitable jobs won't be there, despite discrimination laws. A physically disabled person is unlikely to be able to fill the many vacant jobs in crop-picking or hospitality, or suddenly achieve the qualifications to fill the thousands of vacant posts in the NHS.
There was also a statement that the way we work has changed to facour working from home, which will enable many disabled people to do some work - and yet employers including the Civil Service, urge people back into the office.
I am not saying that people should not work but it is not an easy-to-achieve alternative to being on benefits if you are long-term sick or disabled, yet I can see benefits being stopped before someone actually gets a job, the way the system works.

Oh, and before I climb down from my soap box.
Work coaches who don't actually have any skills or info being put into customer facing roles, too.

I asked about childminding - would I be able to find a childminder if going back to work full time, since my grandson was 10.
No family to have him, would it be discounted from wages earned, and how would it work with the 12.5 hour shifts that the job (the one I already had!) required.

The answer. Silence.
Not a bloodý clue!!!
So shouts it across the whole building "this woman's daughter has died... blah blah blah...."

What kind of "help" is that?!?

Then of course, are the suggestions that any partner who is annoying must be "on the spectrum".
It does a huge disservice to people whose lives are impacted by these matters.

Me and my girl saw a programme that featured a man who was afraid of buttons.

Sounds absolutely ridiculous - until you see how this mans life is impacted by this fear.

We could all sit in judgement and say well, we aren't afraid of buttons. Wear velcro! and other such things.

The fact was that for this man the fear was crippling overwhelming, for both him, and his long suffering wife.

I used to work for the old DHSS and then the old Dept of Employment so I have experienced quite a bit of the admin of the welfare state. About the DHSS I won’t comment, but I will say that what I saw happening there over forty years ago has laid the foundations for much of the mess the welfare system is in today. The D of E, divided into Jobcentre and benefit services, played a much more proactive role in helping people into work or training. This included the long term unemployed as well as special groups like young people, returners (often women who had been out of the workforce for a while), the disabled, ex forces, graduates etc. There were government run training schemes, subsidised college courses, schemes to support the enterprising self employed, job clubs and many others. Now all job centre staff seem to do is interact online or occasionally face to face with jobseekers who are largely left to search and apply online for vacancies-or not. We need a determined and government led push to improve the take up of work by those able and a prevalent can-do attitude. The present system (like SO many others including the NHS) is NOT working and change is needed overall before the truly awful policy decisions of successive governments (not just this one!) bankrupts our struggling country.

It's pretty obvious to me if someone has OCD.
I don't mean the kind of people who fold their pillowcases a particular way - more people who cannot make it out of their front door because of their endless rituals, washing the skin literally off theor hands, turning the light off then needing to check it's off 25 times.

Real depression is absolutely dreadful. I have had severe depression for nearly forty years. I take medication, and will almost certainly always have to do so. It enables me to function. I never once took a day off work because of depression. Difficult though it was, I had obligations to fulfill. I still do (to my dog). I believe too many people nowadays say they are depressed when they are a bit down or fed up. That is not being depressed.

* Besides which, mental health is far more complex than being depressed.* and the hardest to diagnose

Could it be that ot has only just become (sort of) accepted to even speak about mental health issues?

Even then, people are subject to "if I managed to do this, why didnt you?" type judgements.

Real depression must be absolutely dreadful and clearly there are some people who are in no fit state to work, but how can it possibly be that the numbers claiming benefits for stress and depression have more than doubled over just three years?

The welfare State is a temporary lifeline for those who are struggling, but it has now ballooned into a huge, unaffordable monster.

Something has to change or those in genuine need will lose out.

It's an absolute humiliation to end up being rocked like a baby in a strangers arms, in the middle of the job centre, with everyone looking on.

MissAdventure

I fail to see what is to be gained by sending someone to work 2 months earlier, when they are crying uncontrollably in the job centre, at the shops, at home, and trying to sort out counselling for themselves.

Is that 2 months of benefit money SO important??

There’s no benefit whatsoever, to you, or any employer either. It’s an awful way to treat anyone and not something I’d have done as a work coach, though, sadly, many of my colleagues would have!

Besides which, mental health is far more complex than being depressed.

So, if someone is kind enough to do all that, buying lunch is the least I can do. (Hence, I never get to go out for lunch!)

I always pay of someone takes me somewhere, because I know I'm a pain in the arse to accommodate.

I wouldn't dream of banging someone's car around with my walking frame, having them move all their stuff to fit it in, park close so I dont have far to walk, and expect them to lift my frame in and out.

I don’t think one can generalise, GSM, as depression affects people differently. Yes, there is huge value in working but some jobs are so stressful or dangerous that would put the employee or others at risk.
One of my relatives was unable to leave the house for four years, but that was more than depression.

Thanks MissA.
Not sure that paying someone else’s expenses to accompany is a valid cost to the disabled person, but that takes us into a wider issue re carers.

I fail to see what is to be gained by sending someone to work 2 months earlier, when they are crying uncontrollably in the job centre, at the shops, at home, and trying to sort out counselling for themselves.

Is that 2 months of benefit money SO important??

I speak as a lone parent. 42 years ago I was left with two children under two when my husband decided the rigours of parenting were a bit too much for him. It took me nearly two years to get any maintenance. My sister lived 400 miles away and my brother lived in the US. I had no one but good friends to call on for help.
I am not someone who handles stress well, so I struggled. Without help from the State I don't know what I would have done. Both children were ill and needed a lot of medical intervention. Eventually, after many court appearances( he would fail to turn up at court) to try to get £ from my husband, I got an earnings attachment order. The amount paid was laughable, but at least it was something.

When my younger daughter was 5 and at school full time I went back to work. BIG mistake. I should have remained on benefit as the stress was enormous. Paying child minders and bus fares ( no car) took so much of my wages.

I know there are loafers in this country who take the money and smoke and drink it, but there are an awful lot of desperate folk who have to rely on benefits. The rise in the need for food banks is so depressing. There are hungry children in this country and it's shameful.

We have a government that is happy to "let the bodies pile up" and looks after its rich donors before the hungry and desperate of this country.

Who do I think is milking the system?
Probably these who refuse to accept the advice from their psychiatrist that maybe returning to work, if only part time, might be good for their mental health, rather than sitting at home brooding.

A psychiatrist, Dr. Max Pemberton has written about this recently in the Mail.
Incidentally, in his articles for the paper, he has always come across as a lovely caring doctor.

When my daughter died, I was depressed, obviously.

Some time to grieve would have been appreciated, considering I literally couldn't string a coherent sentence together.

I didnt much appreciate being told thay someone's granny dying was in any way similar to my own experience.

I'm not saying I should have been written off from ever working, but given some time to grieve.

Germanshepherdsmum

My own experience is that someone with depression - even severe depression - is much better off working than sitting at home. It should not be a condition which triggers an entitlement to benefits.

Whilst I agree in the case of depression or anxiety, even severe cases, work, with good support, almost always improves these conditions, but there are many other MH issues which are not so easy to manage, and to be fair, not everyone has the sheer grit to get through these very difficult times.

Cabbie21

There may be truth in what you are saying, but turning sadness and depression into a successful disability or PIP claim is not so easy.

I would think that the current proposals to change the criteria for a successful unfit to workUC or PIP claim are unlikely to go through before the next election, so they seem to me to be unlikely to happen, but I do think it is worthwhile to discuss whether or not genuine mental health problems cause additional expense which would justify enhanced payments.

I am absolutely not knocking anyone with MH problems, which include two of my relatives who have been unfit for work for many years with serious illnesses, but I cannot actually see what extra expense they have incurred through their illnesses.
Yes, they would have struggled to live on basic unemployment benefit- which is not sufficient for anyone to be fair.
I would appreciate genuine answers to this question from those personally affected.
What additional costs are incurred through MH disability compared with a healthy unemployed person?

Lots of help for MH issues can come at a cost to the patient. Often anxiety can prevent people using public transport for instance, so GP appts, hospitals or just visiting friends and relatives might incur taxi fares, shopping can be hard so having shopping delivered incurs delivery costs, well being treatments such as massages cost money. There’s lots of things that incur additional costs. MH conditions are sometimes in addition to other long term conditions, ie things like Crohns, fibromyalgia, ME and many other long term conditions can lead to MH conditions and can require different, and often more expensive, dietary requirements. I’m sure there’s more but anyone not working due to either MH, physical, or both, conditions might have their heating on more, perhaps use their electronic equipment more, hiking up energy costs.

My own experience is that someone with depression - even severe depression - is much better off working than sitting at home. It should not be a condition which triggers an entitlement to benefits.

Mental health issues.
Taxis to and from places, if anxiety makes it hard/impossible to catch public transport.
Taking someone with you, for support on trips out, so paying their fare/lunch/expenses.

Shopping online = more expensive.