Dwp release results of pip claims study

So the drug dealers, which benefits are they claiming?

The reason we know about the gang and the £54 million fraud, is because they were caught! I am sure conviction will be followed by a major claw back of assets from the gang members.

So this from a PP is the reason that DWP can't possibly know fraud is only 0%.

Just because people are not caught doesn't mean they don't exist.

People also say why do you not grass on people you think are cheats..they must live a sheltered life, have they never heard the phrase " snitches get stitches". Its said for a reason

Goodness Whiff, I can't even begin to imagine what it has taken out of you going through all that. There are doubtless many ,many people who do not have the strength or capacity to keep up the fight and sadly don't receive the help to which they are entitled.
And that is the true 'crime' that needs to be investigated. Sharpish.

I would love someone to write down all the benefits that each individual gets that add up to a lifestyle that runs to new cars and holidays.

I worked as a home visitor and benefits advisor for a charity for older people for 10 years, and I have been helping people, on an informal basis, including several on GN, to get Attendance Allowance since. I also have the secondhand experience, given above from someone who held a senior position in the Appeals system.

Disability benefits, of all kinds, are not handed out like shelling peas. Of course there will be the ocasional person, who manages to cheat and lie their way to a benefit, but are we to condemn all recipients - including people like Whiff, for the crimes of 1%?

The reason we know about the gang and the £54 million fraud, is because they were caught! I am sure conviction will be followed by a major claw back of assets from the gang members.

My own experience is that the mills of the DWP grind slow but exceeding fine. I had several clients who failed to declare quite small amounts of capital, not deliberately but because, when in pain, and trying to complete a form, it is easy to forget things, like one of several building society accounts, the rest accounted for. In each case, a year to 18 months later, the benefit would be stopped until repayment of amounts of under £1,000 were repaid.

I do not think there is extensive deliberate fraud with UC, but I do think people end up being overpaid because the system is so complex and people living lives under pressure find it difficult to get their heads round all the things they need to write down and declare. We have recently had the DWP claiming back £sthousands paid to carers, which they have now decided they were not entitled to.

Took me from 1988 until last year to finally get disability benefits. I had to go to a PIP tribunal and only because The Brain Charity got me a solicitor pro bono who worked on my behalf from July 2022 until end August 2023 when I attended the tribunal . They where lovely . Really it a court as it's a real judge and the paperwork comes from the crown judicial service. I was born disabled but I only claim when my health got worse when I was 29 and my GP said to and told me you are disabled so entitled to it. I look normal when sitting it's when I move you can see what's wrong with me . But I was turned down because of no diagnosis.

Finally had my diagnosis in 2022 thanks to my neurologist having my whole genome genetically tested and it's rare he had never had a patient with it nor his colleagues. Thanks to my Facebook group he has another patient with it as I talked about him and she had a referral to him. Her gene mutation is different to mine but same symptoms. Mine isn't passed through families hers is.

I know of people where I used to live get benefits coming out of their ears and there was nothing wrong with them. One woman told me all 4 members had a new car every 2 years and 3 holidays a year could afford to buy their own house and said why should we the council pay for all repairs ,new windows etc plus because of her health help with council tax etc. She told me she had very bad depression. I said sorry to hear that . Then said haven't really but it's easy to fake. I could have throttled her. But I know of other people faking illnesses there as well.

Even with my diagnosis PIP after the forms and 45 copies of medical evidence from my GP, Neurologist and Cardiologist and the phone assessment gave me zero on everything.

Thankfully the tribunal where fair and very kind . I was awarded enhanced PIP for living and mobility indefinitely back dated until March 2022 when I had the forms. Because of how low my savings where my solicitor told me to claim UC this was before I had a tribunal date . And I couldn't have been treated differently. Went to the job centre to see my caseworker and she said she would send off for the health forms there is a proper name for it but can't remember it. And she set everything up on my phone for me. And said phone appointments only as she wasn't having me come in again. I had a face to face assessment as after my phone assessment from PIP I didn't trust them . Again how I was treated was lovely .

There is and will always be fraud and people like me and Miss A had a hard journey to get the help we need.

What worries me more is this green paper saying they would not give a cash payment but vouchers for what a disabled person needs etc. Thankfully it's only talk . And with a general election we will have a change of government.

I am now a pensioner so my UCs stopped which is only right thankfully I get full state pension plus 48p per week for the 30 years my late husband paid his NI. And with help from the CA get pension credit. I contacted my local council and they said I could claim for council tax reduction. I get 25% off for living on my own but could get more. Yesterday I spent 2 hours filling in the on line form. My hands tremble all the time so typing is difficult as I hit the wrong keys plus my HPX effects my cognitive function so need to read things 3 times before it sinks in what I need to do. Got to the part to upload my proof and it timed me out and everything disappeared.

I emailed the council to see if I can talk to someone they fill in the form for me and I email them all my proof. Will have to wait and see what happens. I have difficulty writing and because of my tremors it's all lower case and very small because I have to control my hand. My daughter filled in my PIP forms which took over 3 hours and a friend who is used to filling forms did my health UC one which took her over 4 hours.

Miss A's journey and Cabbie's advice meant I didn't give up my fight for PIP . But I can never thank the Brain Charity enough and the CA for their help.

Gillycats

Why don’t I report them? What, like the local drug dealer who deals to under age kids and claims benefits who has been reported many times to the police and they ignore him? Could it be that I know these people are claiming because here in a poor social housing area you know they’re not working but friends and family know they are falsely claiming and moan about it? Including one who threatened to kill me and my husband for parking outside our house which made him have to slow down instead of racing away in his van? So before some of you come out with comments dismissing someone else’s experience you really should spend 6 months living in a poor social housing area and see some of the rubbish that the decent folk like us have to suck up.

I'm sorry you had such a frightening and lousy experience, however in all truthfulness, do you think Sunak was referring to drug-dealers, thugs and other criminals when he coined his "sick-note-culture" phrase?

I'd imagine that benefit-fraud is is just one of the crimes committed by drug dealers and their ilk, but such criminals are not Sunak's target - no-one has sympathy for drug-dealer and burglars, etc, anyway. He wants us to believe that there's a whole swathe of sick and disabled people who could work, but don't want to.

One of the reasons why the police appear to ignore claims about drug-dealing, and other crime syndicates is because they don't have the manpower nor resources to deal with it, It's already been suggested that in order to stop sending criminals to over-crowded jails where there's no more room - the police suspend operations that might lead to large numbers of arrests. Or perhaps they are watching him, and others but can't yet make an arrest until they've built up a case against him? When someone's arrested, the police have a limited amount of time to bring a charge, and have to apply for extensions, as you probably know.

Grandmabatty

The famous "I know of many people." 'fact' which isn't a fact, is an opinion and not verified.

How do you know it’s not a fact? It’s not my opinion it is what I know to be true. Or are you saying I’m a liar perhaps??

Why don’t I report them? What, like the local drug dealer who deals to under age kids and claims benefits who has been reported many times to the police and they ignore him? Could it be that I know these people are claiming because here in a poor social housing area you know they’re not working but friends and family know they are falsely claiming and moan about it? Including one who threatened to kill me and my husband for parking outside our house which made him have to slow down instead of racing away in his van? So before some of you come out with comments dismissing someone else’s experience you really should spend 6 months living in a poor social housing area and see some of the rubbish that the decent folk like us have to suck up.

M0nica

I have a friend who was for 30 years a judge in the Appeal system for those turned down for among other things, disability benefits.

Her comments on the quality, knowledge and probity of the medical staff who undertook the assessments, is not fit to print on a forum like this. nor is her description of the pressure they were under to meet targets about how many people should be granted benefit each day.

Thank goodness we have the Appeal Panels. At one time the government wanted to abolish them, so that anyone turned down could only appeal to those who had made the decision in the first place, but this was stopped I think on legal grounds.

The age range for those who are not working because of health problems, according to BBC data, appears to be at either end of the spectrum. Twenty-somethings at one end, and older 50+ at the other.

It was cited that mental health issues were prevalent among the former, and muscular-skeletal and other age-associated health problems at the latter. Which makes sense.

But - long NHS waiting lists are not helping. Neither is the poor infrastructure around transport, childcare and social care. And there cannot be many people who unaware of the problems surrounding mental-health care, with waiting lists that sometimes extend for months, and even years.

The hospitality industry is crying out for workers because staff shortages are crippling their businesses. But these are not generally well-paid jobs, nor secure, and the hours are often unsociable, but that doesn't simply mean that people have to work when they would rather be out socialising, it also means that those with family commitments find it difficult to fit those commitments around the job. Long hours for low pay means that staff will and do leave at the first opportunity of a better, or slightly better job, too.

So rather than the simplistic uttering of the sick-note-culture mantra to rally the faithful and tempt the 'undecided', Sunak and his government should be looking at the issues that might be preventing people from entering and re-entering the 'flexible' workforce, with all its benefits for the employer and drawbacks for the employee.

I have a friend who was for 30 years a judge in the Appeal system for those turned down for among other things, disability benefits.

Her comments on the quality, knowledge and probity of the medical staff who undertook the assessments, is not fit to print on a forum like this. nor is her description of the pressure they were under to meet targets about how many people should be granted benefit each day.

Thank goodness we have the Appeal Panels. At one time the government wanted to abolish them, so that anyone turned down could only appeal to those who had made the decision in the first place, but this was stopped I think on legal grounds.

Gillycats

I’d say that’s absolute rubbish. I know of many people claiming this and/or benefits who could work but don’t want to. Or claim to have certain conditions yet are well enough to engage in activities which would be prohibitive if they truly had that wrong with them. Makes me so mad when there are so many people with genuine health issues yet are struggling to get anything at all. It’s like a game of Russian roulette trying to get state help.

How do you know so many people on benefits? I live in an area which would stereotypically be classed as a benefits hot spot and I only know three people who claim.

What sort of area do you live in and what is the demographic of these "many people"?

The area I live in is very deprived, with lots of people on benefits.

I know the details of only 2 of them well enough to know if they are faking anything, and I couldnt begin to guess at the others - either amounts, or for what reason(s).

We have a block known as something not very flattering, where life for them appears to revolve around drugs.

I've no idea, but assume there are other issues going on with them; perhaps mental health, maybe caused by the drugs, or longstanding, and long before they started with drugs.
Possibly learning difficulties, and definitely self neglect.

I have no idea how much they get, or who, if anyone monitors them.

I can say with certainty that they look a poor lot.

Frequently we hear that one has died, but what from, I have no idea, since they all look neglected and quite pitiful.

That is as much as I know of other peoples finances and health conditions, in 35+ years of being here.

The two I know for certain is because I helped one to claim, as she had three strokes, has copd, and possibly mental health issues, and her son, the angel Gabriel.

Gillycats

I’d say that’s absolute rubbish. I know of many people claiming this and/or benefits who could work but don’t want to. Or claim to have certain conditions yet are well enough to engage in activities which would be prohibitive if they truly had that wrong with them. Makes me so mad when there are so many people with genuine health issues yet are struggling to get anything at all. It’s like a game of Russian roulette trying to get state help.

Really? many people? People you know so well that you are fully aware of the status of their benefits? If this is true, which I doubt, why don't you report these cheats to DWP?

MissAdventure

Who would you trust then?

The Daily Mail or Tory spin doctors?

In a heated discussion about benefit fraud it turns out that no one in my group of eight friends personally knew anyone on benefits!

“That says it all I said” Off we went again! We are still friends.

My neighbours son walks wonderfully.
He just thinks he's the angel Gabriel.

MissAdventure

Yes, the only people whose opinions don't matter are the consultants, because they've got no idea what they're on about.

That's correct.

Much better to rely on those who "know-many-people-claiming-benefits-who-could-work-but-don't-want-to".

It crosses my mind - do those in possession of this information about "many people" actually report them? I mean, if they know for a fact where their income comes from and are absolutely sure that they are defrauding the welfare system - would it not be a duty?

I do know people in the sense that I'm aware of them, of working age who don't appear to work full time, and manage to walk along the street - but I have absolutely no idea where their income comes from, what they are claiming, or what might be wrong with them. I'm amazed at those who actually do know these details about so many others...

I was being ironic, M0nica.

MissAdventure

I'd rather trust someone who saw Sharon and Tracey on the bus, with their acrylic nails and latest smart phones, discussing loudly how they are planning to get even more benefits.

And how often does this happen and have you ever experienced this happening yourself?

This is one of those 'friend of a friend' myths that people like to pass around, but no one has experienced themselves.

Apart from anything else Tracy and Sharon are names that were popular in the mid 19 60's to early 70's, so most of them are in their 50s and even 60s, and while many women that age choose to be well dressed and presented i am not sure acrylic nails are that popular in that age group.

Yes, the only people whose opinions don't matter are the consultants, because they've got no idea what they're on about.

What about the extensive medical knowledge as to which activities people with certain conditions are able to do.

That's the one.

The famous "I know of many people." 'fact' which isn't a fact, is an opinion and not verified.

I'd rather trust someone who saw Sharon and Tracey on the bus, with their acrylic nails and latest smart phones, discussing loudly how they are planning to get even more benefits.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/department-for-work-and-pensions-accounting-officer-system-statement/dwp-accounting-officer-system-statement#section-4-relationships-with-public-bodies