Back to a difficult position

Update.
Well she went into a care home but refused to stay. She put the SW out of her flat. She doesn't get dressed any more and wanders about on the landing talking to herself.
Last night things came to a head. At 3am she started banging and thumping and shouting at her front door. I suspect she couldnt get it open for some reason. She wasnt injured or hurt just raging at it. The noise was appalling and woke the whole block up. I emailed and DH phoned the POA couple. No response.
However, I see they've just arrived. Apparently SW have appointed a carer but thats no use in the night. She needs 24 hour care. I've done a SW referral highlighting that she's at risk of harm. There's already been a fire incident.
No response from SW to urgent referral.
What will it take?? Argh. I'm so tired. Sorry just letting off steam.

Do you have the phone numbers for the POA's? I'd ring them to ask them to speak to her EVERY TIME she disturbs you, along with Social Service and the Police. To get this resolved you are going to have to become a greater nuisance to others than she is to you, involve all your neighbours too if you can. The more calls the quicker the outcome.

Absolutely agree with you MissAdventure these situations are tragic and any one of us could become that poor old soul.

I know she's a nuisance, but the poor old soul, really, as well as all those disturbed by her.

Is she sleep walking or completely awake?

Opening and shutting front door many times early this morning. Goodness knows why. She has been found in the landing in her nightclothes by the postie in the past. Had wandered out and couldn't work out how to get back in.
The POA people came yesterday and brought shopping.

Jules59

It maybe worth phoning the Care Home manager to express your concerns and advise them of your neighbours behaviour and actions when previously in her own flat.
They may give you the social services contact they have been dealing with so you could contact and advise them of your concerns.
This neighbour is not your responsibility.
Hope you are successful - good luck!

I can fully appreciate Aveline’s concerns, and also how difficult it could be not to ‘get involved’. However, the only ‘behaviour and actions’ I see mentioned is the opening and closing of her front door during the night, so presumably there is more? I doubt Social Services would become involved if that’s all, especially as she presumably has capacity, though I think it’s strange that the POA has been activated if that’s the case.
I do hope things settle down.

Keeping everything crossed for you Aveline.

Peaceful night,*Aveline*?

Well she's home. No sign of carers. POA couple came this pm and brought some shopping. Maybe it's going to be OK? - till something happens...

It maybe worth phoning the Care Home manager to express your concerns and advise them of your neighbours behaviour and actions when previously in her own flat.
They may give you the social services contact they have been dealing with so you could contact and advise them of your concerns.
This neighbour is not your responsibility.
Hope you are successful - good luck!

Dickens

Secondwind

Dickens

You’re right, there’s not a lot that can be done. As long as the neighbour is deemed able to make the decision to go home, as my former MIL was, she’ll go home with whatever support they can arrange. The impact on my daughter was harrowing and she lived 200 miles away! People can and will make unwise decisions for themselves. It’s a nightmare, frankly.

The fact your daughter lived so far away - goodness, might just as well be another country - makes it all the more ridiculous for the social services to assume family can look after their aged relatives. Your daughter must have been on a razor's edge.

I'm imagining a call late at night when you live so far away.

Family can, and do, look after their own - when it's feasible. But we no longer live as we did in times gone by when families tended not to move out of the area in which they were born and lived. When there were large industries - factories, etc, employing hundreds of people in the locality. But those days have gone - people were urged to "get on their bikes" and look further afield. Which they did. But are still expected to take on the role of carer when necessary.

You're right, it's a nightmare.

It was me, for many years an utter nightmare.

I’m so sorry to hear this, what a worry for you . But don’t get involved!

Just watched Ed Davies talking about the need for care and the plight of carers. Something that affects so many around the country but just not mentioned by other parties. I was so surprised and pleased to catch that snippet among other politicians pontificating on today's election results. I hope the issue can be raised in the new parliament session.

My mum was determined to stay at home, didn't have dementia but was absolutely riddled with osteoarthritis and probably many other forms arthritis.

She was a blooming nuisance - the one thing she never ever wanted to be.

She was such a,lovely mum, and nan, but oh boy, did she change!

I felt so utterly sorry for her, but it had been her choice and she stuck with it, causing upset and bad feeling between us

My ex MiL is now in her nineties, losing her sight and has had a few falls. Her family all live at a distance and towards the end of the pandemic, as the nearest person with any family connection, though 70 miles away, I visited her as we were all worried about her mental health. She has help from friends and neighbours now but I suspect she may be a burden to some. My ex lives 200 miles away and her other son lives abroad. I think she should probably be in care but my ex has enabled her to carry out renovations on her home which encourages her to want to stay there. Thankfully not my problem as I'm far enough away that I don't feel obliged to help and technically no longer family, but I'm sure there will eventually come a time when difficult decisions have to be made. My own DD and DS live too far away to be of help too, so I worry for her, but am able to stay distant. There must be thousands of people in this situation, either without any family, or family too far away. It's a worry as we age, as most of us hate the thought of becoming a burden on others but may not realise when it starts to happen. Something needs to change to prevent situations like Avelines, but sadly there isn't the capacity any more in social services.

Secondwind

Dickens

You’re right, there’s not a lot that can be done. As long as the neighbour is deemed able to make the decision to go home, as my former MIL was, she’ll go home with whatever support they can arrange. The impact on my daughter was harrowing and she lived 200 miles away! People can and will make unwise decisions for themselves. It’s a nightmare, frankly.

The fact your daughter lived so far away - goodness, might just as well be another country - makes it all the more ridiculous for the social services to assume family can look after their aged relatives. Your daughter must have been on a razor's edge.

I'm imagining a call late at night when you live so far away.

Family can, and do, look after their own - when it's feasible. But we no longer live as we did in times gone by when families tended not to move out of the area in which they were born and lived. When there were large industries - factories, etc, employing hundreds of people in the locality. But those days have gone - people were urged to "get on their bikes" and look further afield. Which they did. But are still expected to take on the role of carer when necessary.

You're right, it's a nightmare.

Dickens

You’re right, there’s not a lot that can be done. As long as the neighbour is deemed able to make the decision to go home, as my former MIL was, she’ll go home with whatever support they can arrange. The impact on my daughter was harrowing and she lived 200 miles away! People can and will make unwise decisions for themselves. It’s a nightmare, frankly.

Secondwind

What an awful situation to find yourself in.
She obviously still has capacity and has probably insisted on this. My former MIL was the same and demanded to go home at 96.

I think there is a distinct difference between having capacity and the capacity to understand the burden you might be placing on others.

It's both worrying for Aveline and rather sad for the woman herself. And there doesn't appear to be any agency set up to deal with this - increasing - specific problem.

What an awful situation to find yourself in.
She obviously still has capacity and has probably insisted on this. My former MIL was the same and demanded to go home at 96.

Back in the 70s I lived in a large Victorian house converted into flats. I felt very lucky to be able to rent the ground floor flat as the grandiose main entrance became my front door. I was a full-time working single parent at the time and had just moved from a dingy property into this nice, des res, leafy area of Twickenham at the foot of Richmond Bridge in Surrey. An ideal place to raise a young child.

The landlord was rather eccentric. But, what I didn't know was that he had a 'reputation' in the 'rental world'. He was a fanatic of a quasi religious cult. He lived in a rambling estate in Surrey with his wife and 7 or 8 children, which he maintained from the income of his numerous properties.

The father of my son had purchased a bottle of very expensive whisky for his parents' wedding anniversary and left it on my dining-room table prior to us all going round to celebrate with them later. After he left, the landlord came round to give me some documents and complete the 'admin', noticed the whisky, and with a very red face proceeded to lecture me on the "only spirit that he believed in - the holy spirit, uttering all kinds of admonishments and goodness what all else in his diatribe.

It all went pear-shaped after that. Because the majority of the other tenants were part of his 'sect'. Most kept themselves to themselves, but there were three who would now be described as having mental health problems. One (and I felt very sorry for her) roamed the house at night banging on people's doors and sometimes, if they didn't respond, she'd throw various kitchen items at their door,including food. She came to my back door which formed part of the back entrance to the house, and frequently tried to turn the handle on my door. She was in receipt of benefits and couldn't manage her money, didn't pay her bills and on one occasion, had her electricity turned off. This resulted in her buying and burning candles - often leaving them lit whilst she went out. We, the tenants, clubbed together to pay her bill - to prevent her from burning the house down.

Another tenant, a man in his 60s, lived in the top flat - a 'turret', and he was an alcoholic who frequently came home late, shouting and swearing at each flat door - especially those occupied by women whom he had a 'thing' about, in particular one who was a teacher. On a couple of occasions, he loudly proclaimed that what she "needed" was a man to "sort her out".

The teacher herself had 'problems' too... she used to bang on the floor when my son was ill with croup and wrote frequent hasty notes pushed through my door abou the noise of his coughing, accompanied by various religious 'texts' either invented or drawn from the cult; she even complained about the doctor's car driving up in the middle of the night (those days when doctors actually came out to their patients) to check on my son. One day, in a moment of absent-mindedness, she ran a bath and went out - the result was inevitable, as she was in the flat above mine...

I was out at work all day but I must admit, the atmosphere when I came home was one of worry and tension, and the dread at the sound of a bang or knock on the door. It has a terrible effect on your well-being - because you never know from one moment to the next what is going to happen, and I sympathise with anyone in this situation.

Footnote
Those tenants are now deceased. My son now owns the ground floor flat and has himself rented it out as he's living abroad. The remainder of the tenants are all lovely people, the property is well maintained, peace reigns, and it now really is a very desirable residence. Maybe the years of anxiety were worth it.

Of course, things are different in Scotland.

All flats are owner occupied. No landlord.

You have my sympathy, I had a neighbour who frequently had psychotic breakdowns and hammered on the ceiling and deliberately slammed her door repeatedly. She was also foul mouthed and insulting at the best of times. Luckily she moved on. I think you need to log incidents, even if she owns her flat she should not behave in a way that disturbs the other residents so much and you need a record of the incidents. Her landlord, or the freeholder perhaps, could write to her and ask her to stop, it's also something you could report to social services in a 'concerned' way as abnormal behaviour can signal dementia or other medical problems. Maybe your household insurance might provide legal advice about any recourse you have in law as well. I hope you are not too distressed and stressed, horrible situation.

You need to make it very clear to the social workers that you cannot take any responsibility for this neighbour. You are not related t ó her, she has someone holding a POA, and from what you say, this poor woman should not be living at home, with or without carers.

It is reprehensible that she has moved back home again, because she doesn't like the care home, as from your description, she is no longer able to judge her own state, or manage on her own.

I know it sounds heartless saying "Don't get involved" but don't - this poor woman is better off in residential care, even if she has to be certified insane to be kept there.

Perhaps it is as someone said it is a plan 'set up to fail'? I had a great aunt in her late 80's with no children. She was hospitalised with Parkinsons but pined dreadfully in a large mixed ward of major hospital. She was sent home for a week. I don't think carers were involved but a distant relative who lived closeby called in each day. Then back to the same hospital where she died. A lovely lady so very sad end.