GPs vote for Industrial action

Most practices either employ a Salary GP, they obviously get a set amount of pay, quite a few part time GP's tend to be on Contract. Or they become Partners (who originally paid into the Partnership ) they are the ones who carry the responsibility of the way that practice is run.
They do get a bonus about every 6 months. Which tends to be a substantial amount.

It's a business, even the Practice Manager can be a Partner.
They do and have to make money, in various ways, eg Government incentives, education/Training others, they also get set amount per patient who they have on their books etc.
However all cost have to be covered, rent, staff etc that's when it get harder, a lot now have access to a Business manager, but more help is needed.

No one has explained why they think the BMA has gone for the guns blazing approach with the new Labour regime. How many hours were spent talking to Wes Streeting I wonder?
Can’t exactly blame the GPs but I do wonder where the head of NHS England stands in all this? As for trying to reduce the waiting lists for NHS treatment, how will this be impacted?

maddyone

What did you do after your five years at university?
My daughter spent twelve years after A levels in order to become a fully qualified GP.

30years with the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice and they are now a shambles as well

Wife/spouse was unable to work as had to be at home to take calls, night, day, weekend, unpaid.

In 1970- it was 135 hours per week for a junior doc in hospital and £ 1000 (in London) per year.

In 1974, 90 hours for £10.000 as Junior GP. 1 night in 3 or 4, and 1 weekend in 3 or 4- on top of long hours (not instead).

when i was young most gps worked 5 days a week, unsure how much they earned? but nowadays,a lot of them are very wealthy, just look at how much a private consultation costs?I used to know a doctor who burnt out in his 40's. After a lot of time off, he returned to carry out medical report letters, hundreds of pounds a pop and that was 15 years ago! ive no idea what is really going on? from privatisation, to greed ........

What did you do after your five years at university?
My daughter spent twelve years after A levels in order to become a fully qualified GP.

It’s useful to have insider knowledge about GPs, but those who try to use the service see a different side, because of how it relates to them.
DH has tried to get an appointment now over several weeks for the same issue. On one occasion his application was triaged and he was advised to consult a pharmacist. The pharmacist took a look and asked, “Do you know what it is?”
DH replied, “No.”
The pharmacist said he didn’t know either, but gave him some cream, which might help
It hasn’t, but trying repeatedly to get an appointment with the GP has met with no success and in the meantime, the problem has worsened.
Similarly, I was told at a surprise face to face meeting with a GP (not ours) that I needed to take some tablets. “Give it 4 weeks and see how it goes. Then we’ll assess the outcome.”
I can’t get another appointment and the tablets don’t appear on my repeat prescriptions, so I took them for 4 weeks, but now have no access to more and no evidence of whether or not they did what he prescribed them for.

Is it any wonder that people don’t understand how GPs work?

Fluerpepper - I did 5 year at University. My daughter is a pathologist and she thinks our failing surgery is a disgrace.

Amalegra

The BMA-such a respectable sounding organisation! I never forget that it is virtually a doctor’s union and behaves as such.

What is wrong with a professional Union?

Agreed, very very unpleasant.

Perhaps homefarm could have a go at studying so hard for 8-9 years after A Levels and very long hours as Juniors, and see.

Where i live in South Wales we have no problem seeing a doctor the same day. There are 7 GP s in the practice and a few of them only work part time. They should consider themselves fortunate to have had the ability to become doctors and earn 80 thousand plus a year. And many of these doctors are married to a doctor making them extremely well off. Plus their children are entitled to free school meals. It's the people who don't have the ability to become Teachers, Gp's, and Dentists that we should support in their quest for better pay. Where would we be without them.

MaggsMcG

No one will notice. You can't get a GP appointment anyway. It will just mean Urgent Care and A&E will be even busier.

I agree, in theory we book online for appointments at our surgery but in practice there are never any available.
If I need help during working hours I contact them online and they message back with either an in-person or telephone appointment if they feel this is required. I think that this method does cut down on the number of appointments that are wasted on trivial ailments and I've been seen very quickly when necessary.
If it is out of hours I do sometimes call 111 but no longer find that this is useful, they've told me to call an ambulance a couple of times or to make a GP appointment - if I could I would!
Several years ago (whilst away from home in a different area) I had cystitis so called 111 and a real doctor called me back and sent an electronic prescription to the local chemist. This is a much more sensible arrangement than waiting two weeks to see somebody. And took up much less of the doctor's time.
I think that we need to re-think how the GP service works, face-to-face appointments are obviously too time-consuming. I'm usually happy with a telephone conversation, and our surgery are great about giving quick face-to-face appointments if they are really required.

The BMA-such a respectable sounding organisation! I never forget that it is virtually a doctor’s union and behaves as such.

Urmstongran

Any medic with any integrity needs to cancel their membership of this vile organisation and make a stand. I know of three who have.

I'm not sure if they can actually continue to work as doctors in the UK if they don't belong to the BMA?

No one will notice. You can't get a GP appointment anyway. It will just mean Urgent Care and A&E will be even busier.

Thank you Wendoline.

yes maddyone I knew about how GP's get paid, I was responding to a few posts that suggested they were just up for money for greed (posh cars, etc etc) to be taken from the pot assigned to surgeries.

Fully agree with you.

ronib

40 patients a day at ten minutes each is 400 minutes which is 6.66 hours x 3 days a week is 20 hours a week. Many gps are part time.
Our large surgery seems to have a huge team of back up staff in addition to the 40 gps who serve 4 practices.
Of course by all means highlight problems relating to patient care and safety. It seems to be a bit of a lottery whether you are fobbed off with exercise sheets rather than forwarded onto hospital for investigation. GPs do have reasonable grounds for highlighting certain workplace practices but why not spend just a little longer talking to the new health minister before taking industrial action?

40 patients a day at 10 minutes each which is 6.66 hours x 3 days a week is 20 hours a week.

Prior to any appointment, the GP checks the patient record. Not many appointments last 10 minutes, some run much longer, very few are shorter. After one recent appointment that lasted more than 10 minutes, I was referred on to two consultants for serious issues. My GP would have had to make a record of the consultation as well as write two referral letters. That’s not a 10 minute appointment. It’s also,probably not an unusual one. The wait room had many older patients.

Thank you Wendoline. I’m another with an outstanding GP practice. They’re under huge pressure and I don’t understand why so many people don’t see that.

As for comments suggesting the government ‘caved’ to the junior doctors. No, they didn’t cave, they reached a settlement, something the Conservative government t could have done months ago.

homefarm

I don't think anyone will notice if our GP's are on strike or not.
They are the pits and are rated at 50% nationally.
The receptionists are rude as well.

This post disgusts me.

Wendoline

This is the first time I felt the need to post on this site. I work part time in a GP surgery as a receptionist. I have over 20 years experience in the role. I never seen GP practices under so much strain and pressure. On Thursday morning during my morning shift 8-12.30 3 receptionists handled 197 incoming calls. I lost count of the patients I dealt with who visited the reception desk. GP’s telephone triaged 71 patients and saw around 12 of those face to face. Many patients as a result of their triage had tests arranged for which forms needed to be raised by the GP for the patient to collect. In addition 2 further GP’s were seeing around 15 patients each either face to face or by phone (our patients are given the choice) for more routine matters and follow up consults. A 10 minute consult involves the GP seeing /speaking to the patient, diagnosing their problem and or ordering tests, referrals etc. The records then need to be updated, accurately of course, all in 10 minutes. In addition to this they sign off on average around 40 plus prescriptions. They need to dictate any referrals needed, review pathology tests that come in daily, review and sign insurance documents, fit to fly, fit to work/not work notes and may more requests. There are no coffee/tea breaks.
I apologise for the length of this post but too many people are ignorant of the way a modern GP surgery functions. Many GP’s work part time my own daughter included. She does 3 days a week plus a paediatric clinic once a month. She finishes at 19.30 if she is lucky and often brings admin home to complete after her children have gone to bed! If you call that part time I hate to think what is regarded as full time! Sorry and I am dreading a work to rule which I am pretty sure the GP’s I work for will not take part in shattered and burnt out as they are.

My daughter is a GP too, although now working in New Zealand. I recognise everything you say Wendoline and applaud you for stating the truth. The amount of ignorance about GPs and their work is simply astounding.
Thank you 👏👏👏👏

Wyllow3

It's unclear to me if they are striking about their personal pay or the money going into the practice. Ie money for either more GP's /anciliary staff. (ie the 30p per patient)

"Patients in danger from overworked GPs says doctors’ spokesperson as strike threat looms
‘It is dangerous for GPs to see 60-70 patients a day,’ warns top GP Clare Gerada"

(Independent).

The government doesn’t set GP’s pay. They give money to each practice according to how many patients they have registered with them. The practice then manages itself effectively. Nurses, Practice Managers, care assistants etc all have to be paid before the doctors, plus the premises have to be maintained. The doctors then take their salaries according to their seniority, how long they work etc. The government have underfunded GP Practices for years just like other areas in the NHS. The last year my daughter worked in her practice as a GP (she’s moved to New Zealand now) she had to take a pay cut, along with all the doctors in her practice, because they couldn’t otherwise balance their books. GP Practices are businesses and have to balance their books like any other business.

Excellent post Wendoline. I do understand a lot of the frustration around getting GP appointments, but the reality of what a GP's day entails did need to be highlighted here.

Nobody seems to really seriously be pushing keeping the population healthy, well and so not needing N 'H' S. Are we nearly there yet?!

Thank you Wendoline, those working in it know the truth.