Americanisation of the UK

Maerion

I agree that some American celebratory customs are now becoming commonplace in the UK but promenading is nothing new c/f our Proms music series and its origins. Prom night in colleges seems to have originated at Princeton in the early 1900s; Baby showers were given by American church ladies, again in the early 1900s. These customs have taken a long time to get here.

Language is another matter. I think cookies and biscuits has been discussed before with cookies very much a Scots term that was taken to America.

Knickers is interesting as it originates in America via a novelist and a Dutch colonist.

Knickers is a colloquial contraction of knickerbocker(s) - a loose fitting garment gathered at the knee. Knickers is now used in the US for the shorts worn by boxers and footballers. The Liverpudlian kecks for trousers derives from knickers or knickerbockers.

Harmen Jansen Knickerbocker was a Dutch colonist most associated with Albany, New York.

American writer Washington Irving (1783-1859) used the surname to create the fictitious Diedrich Knickerbocker, the pretend author of Irving’s novel A History of New-York from the Beginning of the World to the End of the Dutch Dynasty published in 1809. The character dresses in baggy-kneed trousers referred to as knickerbockers, later shortened to knickers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diedrich_Knickerbocker

Knickerbocker is also used to refer to people who live in Manhattan and the short-form adopted for the city’s professional basketball team who are called the Knicks (and wear knickers to play in).

In 1900, The Times reported The Imperial Yeomanry.. in their well-made, loosely-fitting khaki tunics and riding knickers.

The earliest written British use of knickers for womens’ undergarments was in 1882. I recommend flannel knickers in preference to a flannel petticoat. (From The Queen - an illustrated journal that was published from 1861 to 1970.)

Pants comes from mid 14C to early 17C Middle French panatalon - also the Italian dramatic character Pantaloon (pantaleon) who worn long, straight close-fitting breeches.

Pants became trousers of any kind. In early use, the word was applied to men's trousers, but in the 20C extended to include those worn by both men and women. Panties were men's or boys’ short trousers.

Panties for women's or girls' underpants; especially short-legged pants with an elasticated waist - is a relatively modern term first used in the early 1900s in Australia.

In summary: Pants is French. Panties comes via Australia. Knickers comes to us from American fiction via a Dutch colonist. It’s all very international but if you insist on knickers as the correct term you were already using a word that originated in America.

If you live in NW England ( as I do).....all trousers are called pants

JaneJudge

It is the work culture that worries me more. The ruthless die hard mentality and immediate sackings. The dog eat dog and work until you drop, that just doesn't happen in the same way in European companies.

Anyway as for the language...I blame spongebob and spatula

Agree ...and very poor holiday and sick entitlement ....and no statutary mat leave ....its like a 3rd world country when it comes to employment law

This has been happening slowly over a couple of decades now.
I find it odd that we left the EU with Brexit, saying we wanted our Sovereignty back, yet we are now mimicking America.

PS I worked for a large American company and they can be ruthless.

We can still take the mickey out of them though. Michael McIntyre has a point.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCo0hSFAWOc

Casdon

We can still take the mickey out of them though. Michael McIntyre has a point.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCo0hSFAWOc

Brilliant!

TillyTrotter

This has been happening slowly over a couple of decades now.
I find it odd that we left the EU with Brexit, saying we wanted our Sovereignty back, yet we are now mimicking America.

Indeedy- mind boggling.

Fleurpepper

Agree, hate it. And much more of a threat to British culture than anything else often mentionned.

hence my earlier message.

Yes, not sure how the old seizing back control thing is going when the US says 'jump' and we ask 'how high?'

It would be lovely if we could adopt the American natural good manners, the smiling courtesy, the lack of litter, the care for the space outside your house/apartment, the good road manners and upkeep and the ‘of course we can’ attitude though wouldn’t it?
Travelling around the States, most recently up the East coast, I have rarely heard a swear word in the street, had people help me in so many small ways and admired the clean litter free streets. I’d like to adopt all that please - but maybe that’s how the UK used to be?

My son in law is American, but he's been over here for over 25 years and we've worked hard on anglicising him! He knows the difference between crisps and chips now.

My daughter's friend married an American and has been living in Boston for some years. She certainly showed us the reality of the US health system. She spent some weeks in hospital with placenta previa and ended up having an emergency C section which she and the baby were lucky to survive. Her treatment was being covered by her husband's insurance but, during the pregnancy he started a new job. It turned out that the insurance that came with the job wasn't as generous and she had to go home with her premature baby after a few days. The Americans are convinced they have the best health care in the world, but it's not much good if you can't afford to access it.

As someone who has lived in the US, I couldn’t have said that better lixy

Vintagejazz In the Netherlands in the early 1970s I noticed that many of the younger people spoke fluent English (as do most of the Dutch) but with an American accent. They put it down to the films they watched on television.

Missinterpreted Re ‘janitors’, in LCC schools in the 1960s we had neither janitors nor caretakers but school keepers.

lixy

It would be lovely if we could adopt the American natural good manners, the smiling courtesy, the lack of litter, the care for the space outside your house/apartment, the good road manners and upkeep and the ‘of course we can’ attitude though wouldn’t it?
Travelling around the States, most recently up the East coast, I have rarely heard a swear word in the street, had people help me in so many small ways and admired the clean litter free streets. I’d like to adopt all that please - but maybe that’s how the UK used to be?

I agree , I also like that they are very proud of their country and are proud to have their flag on their front lawns and buildings .
We’ve travelled a lot around the US and have had some wonderful road trips . We’ve always found Americans to be very friendly and very polite . When we toured the southern states , even young people called us Sir and Mam.

I confess I don't like the Ma'am and Sir, Tenko.
I didn't like it when we lived there and still don't.

NotSpaghetti

I confess I don't like the Ma'am and Sir, Tenko.
I didn't like it when we lived there and still don't.

I’m not a huge fan of the ‘Sir’ and ‘Ma’am’ either, but would rather that than the ‘luvvy’ my local butcher uses or the ‘hun’ from the petrol station attendant in New York.

I’d forgotten to mention the flags. I do wish I could put up a St George’s flag without the far right connotations. It was good to have the Union flag in evidence during the Olympics.

I'll be joining you on the moon Sarnia! Had a holiday in China just before COVID. (We were stopped from flying home via Wuhan !!) I've travelled far and wide over the world and China is one country I would never return to I'm afraid.

I hate a lot of it too.
Everything American has to be bigger, louder and more dramatic.
Fast food and bigger portion sizes for instance have been adopted in the UK which is mostly the cause of everything increasing obesity and health problems - just like in America.
That's just one example.

Joseann

Interesting discussion- I'll maybe come back later.

Talking of McDonald's outfits, France has more McDos than the UK! Not much resistance there.
Most French people I know use the term le fast-food.

The big US companies have so much money and power.
^“After five-year legal battle
The opening marked the first ever presence of US fast food giant McDonald's on the Île d'Oléron, a small island just off La Rochelle in the ...”^

I detest the Americanisms. My daughter uses the word pants for her 3 year old. I call them
Knickers lol. Authors have started putting them in as well which REALLY gets to me. Cell phone. Gotten. . Perhaps we can set up a “Ban the Bad use of words” group ? … oh heck that’s a terrible use of grammar, I blame my ageing brain.

I don’t think the word pants for knickers was an Americanism, I’m 65 and have always called my underwear pants. Americans use the term pants instead of trousers.

Mispronunciation of words that we have adopted and don't know they oroginated from the USA:
Clematis: We used to say 'clemertis' which is correct as from Greek word 'clema'. They say 'clemaytis'.
Migraine: We used to say 'meegraine'. They say 'Mygraine'.
There are loads more.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

jan1956

Message deleted by GNHQ

Uncalled for.
There is absolutely no grounds for this remark.
Please don’t attempt to hijack a perfectly reasonable thread to suit your agenda.