Lucy Letby, Unanswered Questions.

She has been found guilty in court. 12 jurors listened to the evidence every day for some weeks and made their decision. I didnt see the programme but a tv programme for an hour can’t possibly cover all the evidence heard in court.

Maybe watch the Panorama programme so you have a more informed view.

Timothy Evans was found guilty March 1950. Hanged June 1950.

Evans was granted a posthumous pardon. The High Court dismissed proceedings to officially quash Evans's murder conviction in 2004 on the grounds of the cost and resources that would be involved, but acknowledged that Evans did not murder his wife or his daughter, a full 54 years after his wrongful execution.

I’ve not followed any of this but I read a few days ago that David Davis (Tory MP - one who managed to keep his seat) said he’s 90% certain that LL is innocent. I haven’t read why he thinks so.

i think much of the hoo haa around Lucy Letby is led by the usual social media trolls that did so much harm by baseless rumours around the death of Nicola Bulley and her drowning.

Much of the rumour around Letby is of a minor items of evidence that do nto undermine the whole body of evidence presented at her trial. Further investigations are also producing evidence that the number of babies she harmed extends well beyond those for whom evidence was sufficient to present in court.

Comparing the Timothy Evans case with Lucy Letby is ridiculous, the crime, the circumstances around it are entirely different. Might as well compare Letby with one of the executed Queens of HenryVIII. It would be just as far fetched.

You call me ridiculous ? you are entitled to your opinion

I am not ?

Anniebach

You call me ridiculous ? you are entitled to your opinion

I am not ?

I did not call you ridiculous. I referred to one opinion you hold as ridiculous. In the past you have held opinions which I respected even when I didn't agree with them and I am sure that will be the case in the future, but I consider this one opinion to be ridiculous.

I always wondered if she harmed them in order to save them. Some sort of attention thing. Her notes that were used to convict her, all claim innocence and so does she. Because there is no concrete evidence in this case, nothing seen, no physical trace, I think it will be talked about for a long time.

I feel so sorry for the families of the babies lost by this woman’s actions. Are they ever going to be left alone to grieve - every time these reports about Letby come out and speculation about her possible innocence (which I personally doubt), their wounds must be ripped open.
Those poor babies didn’t kill themselves.

Anniebach

Timothy Evans was found guilty March 1950. Hanged June 1950.

Evans was granted a posthumous pardon. The High Court dismissed proceedings to officially quash Evans's murder conviction in 2004 on the grounds of the cost and resources that would be involved, but acknowledged that Evans did not murder his wife or his daughter, a full 54 years after his wrongful execution.

I think Annie's point was that there can be convictions which turn out to be wrong. There have been a few of those. Obviously medical professionals and babies is a very highly emotive topic as well.

I haven't seen the Panorama programme - I did see one a while back - was it Channel 4 or Channel 5? That seemed to sit on the fence and just leave you with a lot of questions. Maybe the Panorama one did the same?

All the programmes seem to be doing is bringing the topic to a wider audience via TV.

Nobody knows except Lucy Letby herself. I must admit to having doubts from the start (and am a former nurse as well) - however the one thing that made me think she might be guilty was that she went a bit crazy if she was actually having an affair with that married Doctor who had a wife and children and clearly wasn't going to leave them. That it may have made her go a bit mad and resent families with children somehow.

But that's just a guess. From what I've seen recently, the evidence is very much in question recently - as to whether the babies were actually murdered at all.

But only Lucy Letby knows the truth. I can't think of anything worse than to be accused of murdering infant patients - neither could there be anything worse if it was true. So I can see why there is doubt about the conviction with no clear evidence and all the autopsy reports saying they died of natural causes.

Thank you gentleshores I was not comparing just stating a fact, I chose Timothy Evans because I knew his family

Ziplok

I feel so sorry for the families of the babies lost by this woman’s actions. Are they ever going to be left alone to grieve - every time these reports about Letby come out and speculation about her possible innocence (which I personally doubt), their wounds must be ripped open.
Those poor babies didn’t kill themselves.

I agree.

It must be heartrending for those families to see and hear her constantly in the news.
I do not believe she was innocent.

Neither do I.I’ve said on another thread, did you see her diaries?
Frightening.

Presumably the mortality rate on her ward has gone back to normal percentages now.

I saw all the "notes" the media published, which were apparently after her counsellor advised her to try and brainstorm her thoughts when she was accused and under fear and stress of what was happening (before she was arrested). Her diary didn't have much in it but the police thought LD was some kind of code for certain events she might have done, when it was just shorthand for "Long Day" (ie her schedule).

Some people seem convinced it was a wrongful conviction. I wouldn't have a clue whether she is innocent or guilty. I don't think the notes and diary are related to whether she's guilty or not. But there was something recently about the Doctor who gave evidence for the prosecution, changing his story, when it was shown she wasn't even there for a whole day after an x ray was taken and the Dr had used the x ray to claim it was an air embolus. He then retracted (long after the conviction). So that lent some doubts.

I just watched the Panorama. It just leaves uncertainties again. But I think the woman journalist is convinced she's guilty - unless she's just playing devil's advocate.

What was interesting was the medical expert for the defence - who wasn't called to the trial - and it could have changed the outcome of the jury's verdict.

Silverlining it’s not just an hours TV programme its a programme about very eminent and fully qualified people saying they are not convinced of her guilt it’s not just a documentary looking at the case

Anniebachs your point is very valid there have been more than one wrongful arrests over the years only recently a man who served about 17 years was released which is horrific

I don’t know if the woman is guilty or not I don’t think you can base it on the fact the deaths have stopped, of course they have stopped the whole set up has been under fire it’s probably the safest ward to be on now
If she committed the crimes she is a horrific person and deserves what she has been given but if she didn’t then it’s a huge miscarriage of justice and she must be in a living hell

Very very difficult one

Thank you BlueBelle , I haven’t followed the case

The reasons given for the deaths happening and then stopping was NHS overload - the unit was upgraded to accept category 2 neonatal babies (the most premature ones and those at most risk) when it was only a category 1 unit. They weren't really qualified to accept category 2 neonates (and in case, category 3 triplets). They were then downgraded back to a category 1 unit, after so many deaths which is why the death rate went back to normal (according to the arguments).

I occasionally get interested in it as there are a lot of professionals - Doctors and MP's raising issues with it. But it's all very confusing. You could see either side of the arguments could be right. And these people couldn't speak out until the second trial was over.

I have no idea if she was guilty or not.

Anniebach

Thank you gentleshores I was not comparing just stating a fact, I chose Timothy Evans because I knew his family

My sympathies, Anniebach.

As for the case under discussion - it has so many complicating factors to muddy the picture. It is so hard on all involved.

There are a lot of unsafe and wrong convictions. It was estimated once that 10% of those in prison had been wrongly convicted.

However, with more evidence coming out as investigations spread back to her training periods in other hospitals and show that wherever she was the number of deaths of babies and unexplained incidents of harm immediately rose. It is clear that something was happening and her presence was part of the answer.

Thank you Nannarose All those years ago and the words
‘He / she was found guilty’ send shivers

There are too many wrongful convictions. I don’t know if Letby is one of them but I read a piece about it the other day and it appears most evidence is circumstantial, and that the babies who died suddenly were extremely fragile anyway and that there was only one case where it could be proved that Letby was not administering to a baby who was in crisis. I mean obviously for a sociopath her career is a gift but is she a sociopath?
I don’t know but then I am not sure if many other people now either.
Tbh the NHS is a wreck, so much is going wrong with it, so who is to say whether Letby has been scapegoated for a lack of care due to not enough staff or over worked staff making mistakes.
Am just putting that forward as the devil’s advocate, because Letby could just as easily be guilty as charged.
Maybe we will never know.

The judge and jury had all the information and we don’t.They convicted her.
Her writings are important as they show her state of mind which was very dark.
She was over invested in the parents and enjoyed her status as a heroic caregiver when she was the opposite.