Ch4 Dispatches tonight about Royals making money

agnurse

They actually are taxed TWICE. The revenues from the royal estates go to the government, and then the civil list is deducted from this. (Tax one.) They then pay tax on what they receive from the civil list. (Tax two.)

I don't think that is quite right. The Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster aren't part of the Crown Estates, which were handed over to the nation by George III in return for a guaranteed income from them. It is the Crown Estates which provides the 'civil list' (or whatever it's called now'.

The two Duchies are privately owned by Charles and William.

I have reservations in general about very wealthy people owning enormous amounts of land, but in this case I do think that, as part of a monarch's implied role of caring for all their subjects they should certainly not be charging rent from the caring institutions put in place by the government which theoretically rules on behalf of the monarch. such as schools and hospitals.

I, too, hope that Charles and William have red faces today...

They showed some highly qualified ( hopefully unbiased) chap details of the state of a Duchy of Cornwall rental property. He had no idea who the landlord was.

After perusing it, he made the comment that it looked as though the landlord was probably someone who owned few properties and was either unaware of his obligations or chose to ignore them.

When he was informed that the landlord was the Duchy, he had admit that was a ‘surprise’.

Tony Benn had the right idea.
I don’t think people realise how the Establishment became Established
It simply stole the land and property off the poor, surrounded themselves with weak minded sycophants for protection gave themselves titles and have been wielding power ever since.

Spot on.

Can't say this news has surprised me.
I think the idea that the monarchy bring in more than they cost must surely be overstated, considering their hugely lavish lifestyles.

Farzanah

Tony Benn had the right idea.
I don’t think people realise how the Establishment became Established
It simply stole the land and property off the poor, surrounded themselves with weak minded sycophants for protection ^gave themselves titles and have been wielding power ever since.^

Tony Benn was sort of correct, but the foundation of the Royal's landholdings in these Duchies is the concept of the monarch owning all the land by right of conquest. It obviously dates back to William the Conqueror, from whom the English monarchy is descended (though somewhat distantly...)

The claim of land stealing is also focussed around the Enclosure movement, both in the 16th C and the 18th/19th Cs. It didn't so much 'steal land' from 'the people' as take away many commoners' rights to grazing, fuel etc. There was some stealing as landowners putting in claims for allotments under the Award had to prove that they owned the land they already held, many poor people who owned small plots didn't always have any way of proving their 'ownership' so their claims were dismissed.

But all in all, there has never been any wholesale 'stealing' of vast amounts of land from 'the people'. Plenty of terrible injustices, but land stealing is a very weak concept...

Well let’s hope this programme together with an outraged public will put pressure on the RF to make changes necessary, such as paying corporate taxes/capital gains tax and not charging charities/schools/hospitals etc., extortionate rent but a peppercorn rent instead.

I doubt it.
They're in their own little untouchable bubble.

Did the programme give details of rents paid ?

The royal family are wealthy but certainly not untouchable,

Why should the programme give details of rents paid?

I’m afraid I don’t get your point.

Just 20 dukes own nearly a million acres of Britain.
Feudal or what?

The cynical part of me wonders of they knew this documentary was coming out and that's why William put out his 'How to deal with homelessness ' programme.

Anniebach

Did the programme give details of rents paid ?

The royal family are wealthy but certainly not untouchable,

Watch it and then make up your mind.

i watched the programme and it has made me look at the king and prince william in a different light, i think it is time for the king to look at his books and see what it is doing to real people, if you did not watch, you should sit for an hour and get it on channel 4 catch up.

Quote merlotgran Sun 03-Nov-24 14:24:14
Why should the programme give details of rents paid?

I’m afraid I don’t get your point.

They shouldn’t have to give details, I asked because of a post which spoke of extortionate rents

It was interesting, but the "let's raise the tension" musical backdrop, the lack of detail about the background and expertise of some of the people making of the accusations and the complete lack of balance made me suspicious. I would like to have heard the other side of the story. This is not to say that there is no case to answer, but there was certainly insufficient evidence.

Anniebach

Did the programme give details of rents paid ?

The royal family are wealthy but certainly not untouchable,

Yes it gave details of rents paid but can't remember off the top of my head would recommend people watch the programme.

Mamie

It was interesting, but the "let's raise the tension" musical backdrop, the lack of detail about the background and expertise of some of the people making of the accusations and the complete lack of balance made me suspicious. I would like to have heard the other side of the story. This is not to say that there is no case to answer, but there was certainly insufficient evidence.

Is extremely difficult to get any evidence as was made clear during the programme, indeed those in charge of the Duchy's have appeared before the government, as was shown in the programme, and refused to give any details at all.
However, some documents were available, though many had been redacted, the details regarding monies made from charities and institutions publicly owned were available, and telling. As well as monies made from wind farms and a large quarry that is detrimental to the environment that the royals supposedly champion.
So hardly any evidence, as for those making accusations, even without their testimony the details given were damning.

Thank you Mamie, so difficult to judge such documentaries

It obviously dates back to William the Conqueror, from whom the English monarchy is descended (though somewhat distantly...)

Over 25% of the British population is descended from William the Conqueror and probably a much larger percentage from his Companions.
Perhaps many of us could claim a piece of land.

Anniebach

Thank you Mamie, so difficult to judge such documentaries

Not when they are using factual documents which are a matter of public record. And yes, some have been redacted - the question is, why? What don't they want us to know?

Was Guy Shrubsole on the programme? He’s written books, one entitled Who Owns England.which is extensively researched.

Farzanah

Tony Benn had the right idea.
I don’t think people realise how the Establishment became Established
It simply stole the land and property off the poor, surrounded themselves with weak minded sycophants for protection ^gave themselves titles and have been wielding power ever since.^

Tony Benn?
The Viscount Stansgate?
Who avoided (by legitimate loopholes) his heirs paying Inheritance tax on his £5 million estate?

Don't get me wrong, I did like him (and found him an inspiration in some ways) and he was a good constituency MP, but even he organised his affairs so his heirs did not pay the tax they should have on their inheritance.

Farzanah

Just 20 dukes own nearly a million acres of Britain.
Feudal or what?

So what do you propose should happen to this land?

Given over for more buildings, concreted over?
Given to the people so some can put down artificial grass?

Or let the present custodians carry on caring for these 1,000,000 acres while we can worry about the other 59,000,000 acres they don't own?

Quote Grandmabatty Sun 03-Nov-24 14:26:58
The cynical part of me wonders of they knew this documentary was coming out and that's why William put out his 'How to deal with homelessness ' programme.

The William documentary covered several areas interviewing
many people, so perhaps C4 put theirs to follow William