This scares me about Putin.

ronib

petra £1 billion oil revenue from Eu to Russia last year which I imagine can easily be made up in sales to India and China. China is more aligned with Russia than with America?

£1 billion is peanuts to a country running a needless and wasteful war. Putin needs £100 billions to run a war of this nature and run a successful economy.

He is not getting it and the economy is showing the strain 20% interest rate, poor quality products in the markets, food becoming more and more expensive.

Even in a dictatorship, people can be driven too far and explode. Look at Roumania at the end of the Ceausescus reign of terror.

Skydancer

ronib

Fleurpepper Putin is not mentally deranged. He has clear goals to protect Russia from NATO aggression and expansion. The west has failed to understand the consequences of its actions.

Agree with this.

The first thing that happened when Russia invaded Ukraine was that Finand and Sweden applied to join NATO. Putin must have realised there was a danger this would happen so his claimed desire to protect Russia from NATO aggression falls at the first hurdle

But remember thet the main reason Russia invaded Ukraine was Putin's desire to rebuild Greater Russia. All this stuff about the threat of NATO and the other reasons given for the invasion are just distractions. the real reason for the invasion was that Russia wanted Ukraine back in Russia. simples.

The west understands all to well the result of its actions. This is why it has been so slow in allowing Ukraine to fire US long range missiles into Russia and has been very careful to do nothing to could justify Putin saying that NATO is at war with him.

Iam64 I was responding to M0nica when asked “why should it be different in Russia?”
I have not real knowledge about Putin as a leader but then has anyone else in the West?

ronib

Monica my impression is that Putin has a different relationship with the Russian people than we experience here. I don’t know but it seems likely that Putin is very good at convincing his people that he has their interests at heart. Alternatively there is no way that opposition is voiced in what is essentially a totalitarian state.

To quote a cross tennis player, we’ll almost - can you be serious. Your impression is Putin has a different relationship with the Russian people than our politicians have with their constituents

He’s a despotic dictator. It isn’t a democracy.

petra £1 billion oil revenue from Eu to Russia last year which I imagine can easily be made up in sales to India and China. China is more aligned with Russia than with America?

Monica my impression is that Putin has a different relationship with the Russian people than we experience here. I don’t know but it seems likely that Putin is very good at convincing his people that he has their interests at heart. Alternatively there is no way that opposition is voiced in what is essentially a totalitarian state.

ronib

sazzl I read that Putin is far from going bankrupt and the gold reserves in Russia are doing very well. I think the West is going bankrupt because of the war.

ronib
What do you think is going to happen to the Russian economy when Trump starts to drill baby drill
The eu are talking seriously about buying from the US.
Maybe this is what Trump had in mind when he said he could stop the war in 24hrs.
It’s possible 🤷‍♀️

ronib

Fleurpepper Putin is not mentally deranged. He has clear goals to protect Russia from NATO aggression and expansion. The west has failed to understand the consequences of its actions.

Agree with this.

ronib

Monica the population of Russia is 143.8 million as of 2023. The numbers lost in this ridiculous war are a fraction of the total population.
Also the argument rests on the word ifregarding energy prices. If can mean anything….

The Uk population is roughly half that of Russia.

If we were to lose a minimum of 35,000 young men in a military operation, probably nearer to 50,000, with many more seriously and disablingly injured. There woud be a public furore.

Whsy should it be different in Russia.

Monica the population of Russia is 143.8 million as of 2023. The numbers lost in this ridiculous war are a fraction of the total population.
Also the argument rests on the word ifregarding energy prices. If can mean anything….

But, as the programme pointed out, if oil prices fall, and this is expected, energy revenues will not be sufficient to meet government demands on them.

The current buoyancy of the economy is based on building military equipment and when the money runs out, as is expected by the middle of next year, then the pips will start to squeak. Current interest rates in Russia are now over 20%.

Russian consumers are again having to get used to poor quality goods at sky high prices and with the growing mumber of soldiers loss to death and severe injury, well over 70,000 dead and many more severely injured or missing in action, this huge loss will mean that no community will be unaffected and that may lead to disaffection in the wider population.

I wasn’t too sure about the Radio 4 programme - my impression is that the Uk has the highest energy prices caused in part by the war and also Miliband. I think the Uk has a very difficult economic outlook too and that Russia does at least have a trade in oil and gas. Something the Uk doesn’t have?

David49 I recommend that you listen to yesterday's R4 programme The Briefing Room. IT was devoted to discussing the ar in Ukraine and the way it has been conducted and why - and the economics of it.

It saw things very differently to you It is too complicated to summarise on GN, but they were consilting economic and security experts.

ronib

sazzl I read that Putin is far from going bankrupt and the gold reserves in Russia are doing very well. I think the West is going bankrupt because of the war.

The west isn’t going bankrupt, the weapons we are supplying are from Cold War arsenals , the F16 jets M1 tanks and Challenger 11 tanks are up to 50 yrs old, the same with Russia old Cold War designs, some have been updated, but old designs. even the Storm Shadow missiles are 30 yrs old. If they hadn’t been used in Ukraine they would be scrapped.

Russia isnt going bankrupt the oil is still being sold, India, China and many other countries are buying just as much, I am sure Putin wants the war to end but isn’t willing to loose face by surrendering. I don’t believe that Ukraine can win and take back the territory Russia has won unless there are NATO boots on the ground.

Everything depends on what Trump does, the war cannot be continued without the US support, however much we want them to Europe is not likely to go it alone. I’m pretty sure Trump and Putin will agreed a cease fire, then hopefully negotiate an end to hostilities, this war needs ending quickly before it spreads

Wyllow3 was the President Elect included in the meeting?

ronib

More of the same - loggerheads on both sides then?

Well, the report is so very brief - who knows what discussions as to the future especially re what the USA will do occurred off the record.

petra maybe you can check out the rise in Russian gold prices?

ronib

sazzl I read that Putin is far from going bankrupt and the gold reserves in Russia are doing very well. I think the West is going bankrupt because of the war.

I suggest you listen to The Briefing Room Radio 4 yesterday.
A very detailed analysis of the Russian economy.

More of the same - loggerheads on both sides then?

I recalled that NATO was meeting on Tuesday this week to discuss among other matters Ukraine.
They have re affirmed their support, here is their report of the meeting.

www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_230832.htm

"During the meeting, NATO Allies reaffirmed their support for Ukraine. The attack, which targeted Dnipro, is seen as another attempt by Russia to terrorise the civilian population in Ukraine and intimidate those who support Ukraine as it defends itself against Russia’s illegal and unprovoked aggression.

As earlier noted by the NATO Spokesperson, Farah Dakhlallah, “deploying this capability will neither change the course of the conflict nor deter NATO Allies from supporting Ukraine.”"

sazzl I read that Putin is far from going bankrupt and the gold reserves in Russia are doing very well. I think the West is going bankrupt because of the war.

I don't think Putin will resort to nuclear weapons as he knows he will risk getting one in return. Russia, I've read is going bankrupt because of Ukraine so eventually he will run out of money

Yes! It's all about saving face for the ego-driven strong men!

Greyduster

^Is it just me or is he getting to look more and more like Khrushchev?^
At least Khrushchev had the good sense to see what he’d started and back off!

Khrushchev was not happy about US missiles in Turkey so sent Russian missiles to Cuba, it ended when Kennedy and Khrushchev spoke on the phone personally and both agreed to withdraw.
We were told the Soviets backed down, I’m sure the Soviets told their citizens the US backed down.

Is it just me or is he getting to look more and more like Khrushchev?
At least Khrushchev had the good sense to see what he’d started and back off!