Unleashed

Things I like about KS
1.He is intelligent
2. He dealt with the civil unrest promptly
3. He is credible on the world stage.

What is admirable about Mr Johnson and Mr Farage please? Thanks.

Diplomat

You are not alone BevSec. He will be back.

Thank you, I really hope so and thank you for your support on here.

Pam1969

There's a lot of bullying on here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's been a free country for a long time.

All politicians lie. Starmer has been the worst, broken promises to every 'sector' from pensioners to farmers. A considerable mess.

That is so true, so many on here the first comment is about BJ and lying but in my opinion Starmer is not just as bad but even worse.

BevSec I dont think anyone thinks "Everyone can be equal"

As you say yourself,

"There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living."

Thats basically what Cossy and Maizie were saying above about privilege or elitism, its not "envy" to ask for "enough for everyone", its justice.

Wyllow3

BevSec I dont think anyone thinks "Everyone can be equal"

As you say yourself,

"There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living."

Thats basically what Cossy and Maizie were saying above about privilege or elitism, its not "envy" to ask for "enough for everyone", its justice.

Can I just clarify, when you say about asking for enough for everyone, who are you asking it of?

Acceptance that "the politics of envy" as alluded to by you is in fact the politics of "asking for enough" and an aim worth working towards.

14 years of austerity, including time with BJ, has delivered food banks, prisons in collapse, and NHS in crisis:

not the care and "levelling up" commitments of the 2019 election

We don't, however, live in a communist society, in fact it has been shown to be a failed experiment. There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living.

Who said anything about living in a communist society?

We can't achieve a decent standard of living for everyone without a more equitable (I used the wrong word earlier. Apologies) distribution of the nations resources, which includes money. 'Equitable' doesn't mean 'equal' it means 'fairer' in this context. Not favouring some over others.

BevSec

Wyllow3

BevSec I dont think anyone thinks "Everyone can be equal"

As you say yourself,

"There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living."

Thats basically what Cossy and Maizie were saying above about privilege or elitism, its not "envy" to ask for "enough for everyone", its justice.

Can I just clarify, when you say about asking for enough for everyone, who are you asking it of?

I don’t understand your thinking on this. Do you think that Labour Gransnetters are jealous and/or are finanavially unable to contribute to make other peoples lives better, because they have less than politically right Gransnetters?

Can I just clarify, when you say about asking for enough for everyone, who are you asking it of?

The first thing that springs to my mind is that if someone employs a person to work for them they should pay them enough to enable them to live this 'decent life'. If the employer can't afford to do that then they should do whatever job they're paying for themselves.

If we're talking about a business the employer should not expect to pay employees, who are the ones who enable profit to be made, a wage which is too low to enable a 'decent life'. If the business can't support its employees as well as its owner then it has clearly no real value to society.

Love the: “us being done by brexit”! Sums it up! Neat!

Societies don't have to be communist to have clear policies on equality of opportunity, and a fair wage for everyone.
Norway is such a country.

@BevSec
I'm inspired to get this book now, I'm a bj fan, and glad he was pm whilst covid was on, can't think what state we'd be on with this shower of idiots now. A come back with him and Farage would be just brilliant.

Wyllow3

Acceptance that "the politics of envy" as alluded to by you is in fact the politics of "asking for enough" and an aim worth working towards.

14 years of austerity, including time with BJ, has delivered food banks, prisons in collapse, and NHS in crisis:

not the care and "levelling up" commitments of the 2019 election

Not to mention schools totally under resourced in terms of both staff and physical resources

Koalama

@BevSec
I'm inspired to get this book now, I'm a bj fan, and glad he was pm whilst covid was on, can't think what state we'd be on with this shower of idiots now. A come back with him and Farage would be just brilliant.

Brilliant for you, a disaster for many of us!

Chocolatelovinggran

Societies don't have to be communist to have clear policies on equality of opportunity, and a fair wage for everyone.
Norway is such a country.

I absolutely agree! I’ve never ever once said I think communism is the answer.

I simply find it completely disgraceful
and unacceptable that in our country some people have to resort to food banks, sub standard living accommodation and discrimination.

I’m simply asking for a level playing field from day one, equal access to good education, adequate housing, nutritious food.

What each person then makes of their own opportunities and life and career is up to them.

So no, I’m not looking for communism, I’m seeking fairness, a level playing field and social justice.

Btw, I, along with others, am still waiting for a full breakdown of the many “lies” Starmer has told since he became PM.

Can someone please clarify?

MaizieD

^We don't, however, live in a communist society, in fact it has been shown to be a failed experiment. There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living.^

Who said anything about living in a communist society?

We can't achieve a decent standard of living for everyone without a more equitable (I used the wrong word earlier. Apologies) distribution of the nations resources, which includes money. 'Equitable' doesn't mean 'equal' it means 'fairer' in this context. Not favouring some over others.

I guess in other words taking from the wealthy and giving to the poorer folks but wealthy people can give to charity and probably do. Levelling down seems to be what you are suggesting, how is it fair to penalise someone who has studied, and worked hard to hand their money to someone who has maybe not done so? How would you suggest we go about not favouring some over others and what does that mean in practical terms except with ideals of communism?

Cossy

Chocolatelovinggran

Societies don't have to be communist to have clear policies on equality of opportunity, and a fair wage for everyone.
Norway is such a country.

I absolutely agree! I’ve never ever once said I think communism is the answer.

I simply find it completely disgraceful
and unacceptable that in our country some people have to resort to food banks, sub standard living accommodation and discrimination.

I’m simply asking for a level playing field from day one, equal access to good education, adequate housing, nutritious food.

What each person then makes of their own opportunities and life and career is up to them.

So no, I’m not looking for communism, I’m seeking fairness, a level playing field and social justice.

Still interested in whom you are asking it of?

MaizieD

^Can I just clarify, when you say about asking for enough for everyone, who are you asking it of?^

The first thing that springs to my mind is that if someone employs a person to work for them they should pay them enough to enable them to live this 'decent life'. If the employer can't afford to do that then they should do whatever job they're paying for themselves.

If we're talking about a business the employer should not expect to pay employees, who are the ones who enable profit to be made, a wage which is too low to enable a 'decent life'. If the business can't support its employees as well as its owner then it has clearly no real value to society.

I absolutely agree with you

Casdon

BevSec

Wyllow3

BevSec I dont think anyone thinks "Everyone can be equal"

As you say yourself,

"There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living."

Thats basically what Cossy and Maizie were saying above about privilege or elitism, its not "envy" to ask for "enough for everyone", its justice.

Can I just clarify, when you say about asking for enough for everyone, who are you asking it of?

I don’t understand your thinking on this. Do you think that Labour Gransnetters are jealous and/or are finanavially unable to contribute to make other peoples lives better, because they have less than politically right Gransnetters?

They are your words, not mine. I have no idea how much wealth Labour gransnetters have in comparison, what a strange comment. There is no argument but that we all want everyone to have a decent standard of living, i am just interested in how this can be achieved.

Cossy

Koalama

@BevSec
I'm inspired to get this book now, I'm a bj fan, and glad he was pm whilst covid was on, can't think what state we'd be on with this shower of idiots now. A come back with him and Farage would be just brilliant.

Brilliant for you, a disaster for many of us!

Koalama, yes it would be brilliant. BJ was so reassuring in that crisis, felt we were in a safe pair of hands. Glad you feel the same.

This term "communism" is thrown about carelessly without any real knowledge of what it actually means or how very different it is from the fairer society several describe, Bev, and I do know what I'm talking about

In a Communist society no one can own anything or earn more by their own efforts. No one would own their house, or any land, People would get paid the same. The state (or "the workers in traditional texts) own all the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and services. You would work according to your ability, but get given only according to need. That would include those in power

What you would call the "lefties" or "liberal" on GN are discussing various sorts of democratic socialism -views obviously vary, but none resemble "Communism

BevSec

MaizieD

We don't, however, live in a communist society, in fact it has been shown to be a failed experiment. There will always be some who have more than others, although I do agree with you that all should have a decent standard of living.

Who said anything about living in a communist society?

We can't achieve a decent standard of living for everyone without a more equitable (I used the wrong word earlier. Apologies) distribution of the nations resources, which includes money. 'Equitable' doesn't mean 'equal' it means 'fairer' in this context. Not favouring some over others.

I guess in other words taking from the wealthy and giving to the poorer folks but wealthy people can give to charity and probably do. Levelling down seems to be what you are suggesting, how is it fair to penalise someone who has studied, and worked hard to hand their money to someone who has maybe not done so? How would you suggest we go about not favouring some over others and what does that mean in practical terms except with ideals of communism?

Bev Boris Johnson himself called it levelling up. Here is the mission statement:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/statement-of-levelling-up-missions/statement-of-levelling-up-missions#:~:text=In%20February%202022%2C%20the%20government,over%20levelling%20up%20policy%20objectives.

It is rather vague about rating money, but since it depends on, for example, grants for good transport links through the country, grants for business development for the areas deemed to need levelling up, its clear that only the public purse could fund these.

This means taxing those who are better off in order to provide services for all.

This new right wing meme "its levelling down" seems to be turning time back to that old hymn - remember?

"The rich man in his castle,
the poor man at his gate;
God made them high and lowly,
and ordered their estate"

No. If you are well off/better off than those using food banks - our society has since the inception of the welfare state taxed those who can better afford it.

Wyllow3

BevSec

Loving it “i did not want to put up barriers against those who had been to fee paying schools, that wasnt levelling up, that was levelling down. Thats what Labour did, thats what Lefties got off on. Abolishing grammar schools, banning academic selection, taxing fee paying schools, punishing effort, punishing investment, punishing aspiration, insisting all must have prizes. That was the agenda of the left.

How true.

(I presume its a BJ quote and am treating It as such Bev ie not your words - I am addressing the quote

Quite offensive really to the millions of families whose children can't afford fee paying schools or either don't have access to grammar schools or disagree with their principle and make choices for state education

To say those parents and their children - like my own family - don't make efforts, don't invest time and work, dont have aspirations, is outrageous:

And as for the "insisting all must have prizes" what does he mean by that?

I agree. Johnson lied to his previous employers, his party, his government, his family, his mistresses; you name it, Johnson lied. Why anyone would think that he would make a special effort and tell the truth to the electorate baffles me

With the exception of the obsessed Nadine Dories, most of his parliamentary colleagues have distanced themselves from him.

However, each to their own, and if anyone wishes to read his book, good for you. I must add though that if the above quote 'what Lefties get off on' is a true quote from the text, I don't think many other authors will be kept awake at night worrying about a threat to their literary skills.

yellowfox

He didn't succeed with Brexit because the Remainers could not accept the fact that they had lost the vote and were out to sabotage and get rid of Boris. Which they did.
He is a highly intelligent man and a very good author.
All politicians lie at times. Look at Starmer!

GN: we need a hysterical laughter meme please