One in four children start school in nappies

I was never mother of the year and made many mistakes but
I don't remember it being a problem. I don't think my DCs (or GCs) were unusual in that they wanted to be grown up and wear big boy/girl pants use the big person loo.

Do these nappy wearers get teased at school or are there so many of them that it has become normalised?

I read in the news this week that a school in Wales has begun phoning parents to come and change the child due to the sheer volume of non toilet trained children. It was stated that non of the children have medical issues or learning disabilities. I guess it is becoming too much to cope with as there must constantly be a need to change a child in the class.

In Germany and Scandinavia children don't start formal school until 6 or 7.
It doesn't seem to hold them back and I'm sure they don't wear nappies!

escaped

Legally, they must start school by the beginning of the term AFTER they are 5. So if you are 5 in say June, you needn't start until year 1.

The trouble is, they then miss out on Reception year where they are finding out how school works, making friends and in fact enjoying themselves.

It is because they start school too young.

Legally, they must start school by the beginning of the term AFTER they are 5. So if you are 5 in say June, you needn't start until year 1.

That was found to be illegal when my youngest DC was at nursery nearly 40 years ago. Has it changed back again?

This was five years ago, in England.

Granmarderby10

If age five is still the age that (by law) children have to start formal education in UK then any discussion about “children starting school” before that age is irrelevant isn’t it?

Yes, I think so. Children may start the term in which they are five (and most do) but if parents feel their children are not ready at that stage they are not legally compelled to send them (or to arrange home schooling) until they are five.

I don't know how that would work in practice (as regards getting into a particular school, for example) but unless I am mistaken that is the law.

My DD tells me that when her youngest was in reception there was a child who was severely disruptive and frequently hit the other children. As they were not yet five, the school excluded them as was apparently the school's right. They went to another school so we don't know if they continued to be disruptive after the age of five.

Could this right to exclude under fives be used in the case of children who were still in nappies for no reason other than the fact they had not been toilet trained?

2.5 hrs
of teacher time per day lost due to school readiness

Leaving just four hours of the school days to fit in everything else.

The statistic quoted in the media comes from the Kindred Squared annual report. The 1 in 4 relates to Reception intake
kindredsquared.org.uk/school-readiness-survey/

Section 3 from EYS framework for anyone interested. 1st Novemver 2024.

V3ra

^...whereas nurseries have a ratio of one adult for every 8 children (10 if it under 4 hours).^

It's one adult to 13 children if there is a graduate leader.
I went for a "stay and play" session at the school-based nursery one of my minded children attended.
There were 26 three/four year olds and two adults.

It's one adult to 13 children if there is a graduate leader.

That was found to be illegal when my youngest DC was at nursery nearly 40 years ago. Has it changed back again?

After DD had moved on to school the law there changed and the ratio was reduced to 1:8, one of whom had to be a qualified teacher. As far as I know, that is still the case here.

V3ra

^...whereas nurseries have a ratio of one adult for every 8 children (10 if it under 4 hours).^

It's one adult to 13 children if there is a graduate leader.
I went for a "stay and play" session at the school-based nursery one of my minded children attended.
There were 26 three/four year olds and two adults.

Not just any old graduate either (!) but someone with a Level 6 teaching qualification.
Details available by looking up EYS framework. Ratios do vary according to settings.
In my opinion it isn't fair that "schools" should be changing nappies, whereas "Murseries" might expect it. Our nursery had a deep shower basin to hose the bottoms off!

Disgusting I couldn’t wait to get mine out of terries and into little knicks
They were all done in the daytime as soon as they were walking around 1 year old nighttime later completed by 2y latest They loved using their potties and all the praise that went with it
Children should not be going to school in nappies it should be a rule unless of course disabled in some way

While on the subject of nappies this week while unpacking a large black bag of clothes at the charity shop I found a full nappy all taped round with the contents still in

My son went to the local playgroup (run privately by a group of mums) at age 3. One of the rules was that no child could be accepted if not toilet trained. This was late 80s. When he started primary school there were no children in nappies either.

Every single teaching assistant I know is involved in managing children in nappies. As I say most reception classes have 2 - 3 children with additional needs, and that is a low estimate, many have many more.

...whereas nurseries have a ratio of one adult for every 8 children (10 if it under 4 hours).

It's one adult to 13 children if there is a graduate leader.
I went for a "stay and play" session at the school-based nursery one of my minded children attended.
There were 26 three/four year olds and two adults.

Granmarderby10

If age five is still the age that (by law) children have to start formal education in UK then any discussion about “children starting school” before that age is irrelevant isn’t it?

You are, of course, right G10 but, in my experience, most local authority schools are geared to parents sending their children in the September before they are five.

I don't think that teaching assistants should be responsible for dealing with persistently incontinent children either. Apart from the fact that they are there to assist the form teacher with the teaching (the clue is in the job title), most infant classes have around 30 pupils whereas nurseries have a ratio of one adult for every 8 children (10 if it under 4 hours).

Harris27

I’ve got four in nappies in pre school room at nursery. Yes they are starting school in nappies three if my children went in September in them. So it’s ok to change nappies in a nursery setting but not as a teacher?🤔

A qualified teacher is very different from a Nursery Nurse. In a Reception class there will be as many as 30 children, usually with a Nursery Nurse or more likely a Teaching Assistant, but not always. There is a curriculum to be delivered and a teacher cannot stop her/his lesson on for example Letters and Sounds, in order to change a nappy. There are unlikely to be proper facilities for nappy changing in a Reception classroom either.

Nursery classes have a higher ratio of staff to children - by law. Usually in a nursery each adult will have charge of a small group of children. That member of staff will be the key worker for her/his group. There will also be more opportunities for the children to engage in self chosen activities and that gives the key worker time to pop out to the nappy changing area to attend to a child who has wet or soiled themselves.

The role of a qualified teacher is different from that of a qualified Nursery Nurse, and they are both different from the role of a Teaching Assistant or Nursery Assistant. Higher Level Teaching Assistants have a different role again.

Granmarderby10

If age five is still the age that (by law) children have to start formal education in UK then any discussion about “children starting school” before that age is irrelevant isn’t it?

Where my DGC live, they have to start school in the September of the school year when they are going to be five. So they are 'Rising Fives'. Some will be five in the week they start school, others may not be five until the very end of thst school year, ie end of August so just about a year younger.

If they want to wait a year until they are just five, then they have to start school in Year 1 and miss Reception.

It is much too rigid.

Do childminders not do toilet training? Genuine question. Both of my children (and my GS) went to nurseries from a very early age, so when we decided to start toilet training, they just carried on with it while the children were at nursery.

If age five is still the age that (by law) children have to start formal education in UK then any discussion about “children starting school” before that age is irrelevant isn’t it?

I wonder whether the trend towards using child-minders might mean children aren't toilet-trained as quickly as they were when parents looked after their own kids and women tended not to go back to work until the kids were at school all day. It's bad enough dealing with your own kids' nappies (especially terry towelling ones!) but doing it for a houseful of other people's is probably even less appealing.

I don’t have GC but many of my friends do and they talk about child centred child rearing , regarding things like weaning and toilet training , where it’s done at the child’s pace , not the parents .
This might explain the high numbers .