Benefits cheats, do you know one?

Barleyfields

I struggle to find a polite response to that.

Yes, me too . Who is supposed to do the 'out of leisure time' work? People from a lesser species?

I wouldn't report benefit frauds or tax cheats. I don't know anyone doing either, AFAIK, but I can't really get on board with a mentality that 'reports' people, or thinks in terms of what is 'allowed'. There is a huge difference between the sort of fraud that involves multiple pension books (or whatever it was) in the recent organised gang fraud and someone doing a bit of cleaning to buy Christmas presents for her children. Yes, the same principle applies to both, but I can't look on them in the same way.

In those circumstances I would have turned a blind eye too. The children shouldn’t suffer because they have a feckless father.

Years ago I knew (quite well) one 'benefit cheat'.

She had two young children - one with mental-health problems which weren't acknowledged by the medical profession, a cheating husband who left her, and a chaotic life-style after going through complicated surgery.

A mutual friend gave her some work to do from home for cash-in-hand (book keeping).

I didn't report her because with the money she earned, she bought shoes and winter coats for the two children, and paid an instalment on a dryer so that she could keep up with washing the sheets from the bed of the child who kept wetting it because of his mental-health problem - whatever it was.

She got scared about being 'found out' and stopped working cash-in-hand.

Her benefits just didn't meet her needs - or rather, the children's needs.

... and I don't feel guilty about not reporting her.

Yes I do but they are people very close to me.

I get angry at them but would never report them as they seem to be able to claim lots of things with few questions asked.

Meanwhile my son cannot claim a penny and is constantly working in terrible conditions for minimum wage.

Some people are just pathetic in my opinion. I do despise them really.

One of our neighbours has a son who is mid 20's now, he comes into the 'special needs' category. He can fend for himself, he has worked previously and is now working with the local authority so is managing fairly well, his disability is not physical. The parents claim and receive a new car every 3/4 years as it's supposed to be for the son for transport purposes, however the car gets used daily to take mum back and forth to her work and the son regularly uses public transport. It really irks me that this is allowed or indeed possible for this to happen. If the son could drive I can see the point but he can't, it's the parents who do the driving on all occasions. Think it seems a bit unfair tbh. If he was under 16 and needed taking places I would see the point but do not see why the parents come into the category of claiming for an adult now.

Delila Yes very gratifying, this woman had been cheating the system and then was giving her time and knowledge to enable other people to cheat the system.

She also caused a lot of trouble for people including myself, her partner did something unspeakable and they managed to concoct a story to get away with something that could have put him in prison.

This was a woman with a second home abroad, expensive cars and a lavish lifestyle

Myself and husband have always worked, paid tax and made sure our children had a moral compass.

If I suspect anyone else I know of cheating the system I will do the same again.

Kandinsky

I could never grass anyone up for benefit fraud. Just couldn’t do it.

If you were personally funding someone who told you they were unable to earn money themselves, and then you discovered that they actually had a pretty good income that kept them well supported, would you be happy to continue meeting all their bills?

So why are you quite happy to know that they are scamming both you and all the other taxpayers?

Sago

Oreo

That’s the point MissA in that I can’t see many people being in full knowledge of the facts.

It’s up to the DHSS to do the investigation.

You do not need all the facts just a name and the reason you suspect the person.

When I reported, I was asked a lot of questions about the person for example did they do a school run, car number plates etc.

Within 3 weeks of my report I noticed a van parked above their house on a country lane, it was there on and off for a few days!
They clearly had them under surveillance.

How gratifying for you Sago.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised.

Barleyfields

Probably, but if fraud is being committed reporting is the right thing to do regardless of motive.

My point is that there are probably some people who report others out of vindictiveness when there is no hard evidence of any actual fraud being committed.

Probably, but if fraud is being committed reporting is the right thing to do regardless of motive.

I'm pretty sure there are some people who report it out of vindictiveness, purely because they don't like the person they're reporting.

It’s not being vindictive. People who commit benefits fraud are stealing from everyone who pays taxes. You would report any other theft I assume without considering you were being a grass?

Yesterday 17:37 rafichagran

Kandinsky
I could never grass anyone up for benefit fraud. Just couldn’t do it.

Why?

Why? Because I’m not a grass and wouldn’t want to drop anyone in deep s**t.
I’m not that vindictive.

I don't know anyone who does this.

Oreo

That’s the point MissA in that I can’t see many people being in full knowledge of the facts.

It’s up to the DHSS to do the investigation.

You do not need all the facts just a name and the reason you suspect the person.

When I reported, I was asked a lot of questions about the person for example did they do a school run, car number plates etc.

Within 3 weeks of my report I noticed a van parked above their house on a country lane, it was there on and off for a few days!
They clearly had them under surveillance.

I struggle to find a polite response to that.

Almost 40 years ago!

Doodledog

Barleyfields

It’s not unreasonable to expect flexibility in return for benefits. It sounds as though you were used to what some people would call a cushy number as regards set hours and convenient locations and weren’t willing to settle for anything less.

Yes, I think that's what I got from that rather complicated post too.

I don't blame you for wanting to keep decent T&Cs - who wouldn't? But if you (generic) couldn't find something that you liked, and had to claim benefits, it's not unreasonable for you to be expected to lower your expectations until something better comes along.

Why does the fact that someone once had a particular job mean that they should never have to do what others are doing as a matter of course?

The common advice was "If you accept a type of job that has worse conditions and/or pay than your own = you might not be able to get back to your own again". That was because a potential employer might regard your new (even lower) pay and/or new (even lower) work conditions as being all you were capable of - and thus decide you weren't really fitted for your own type of job or could manage on lower than your own level of income and you might ages or never to get back to that.

Meanwhile you'd have mucked up your leisuretime activities by not being available for them in leisure hours (because of working then). Society (at least in the 1980s - when I had those spells of unemployment) was very much based around being available for leisure during leisuretime hours.

The only person I know of who was reported for fraud had a very mouthy partner.
The type who "wouldn't get our of bed" for the sort of wages most people earned.

So, I can't say I'm surprised.

sazz1

Yes I know 3 who play the system. Would I report them? Only if they did something bad to me, otherwise no. I don't consider it my job to investigate benefit fraud as there are people who are paid to do this. But if you do something really bad to me I will do the same to you.

You are not expected to investigate benefit fraud, just to report a suspicion which you can do anonymously. After that it’s down to the DWP. Why would you only make a report if someone did something bad to you? Don’t you consider it your duty to report someone who’s defrauding all those who pay tax? You can do it anonymously.

MissAdventure

So, if you found it tedious and disheartening when in a work situation, why spend your retirement doing it too?

That's not aimed personally at "you".
Just a generic "you".

I have never reported anyone to fraud in my retirement, I have not come across it.

Certainly nowadays, you aren't able to stipulate what you will and won't do, if claiming jobseekers allowance.

Barleyfields

It’s not unreasonable to expect flexibility in return for benefits. It sounds as though you were used to what some people would call a cushy number as regards set hours and convenient locations and weren’t willing to settle for anything less.

Yes, I think that's what I got from that rather complicated post too.

I don't blame you for wanting to keep decent T&Cs - who wouldn't? But if you (generic) couldn't find something that you liked, and had to claim benefits, it's not unreasonable for you to be expected to lower your expectations until something better comes along.

Why does the fact that someone once had a particular job mean that they should never have to do what others are doing as a matter of course?

Yes I know 3 who play the system. Would I report them? Only if they did something bad to me, otherwise no. I don't consider it my job to investigate benefit fraud as there are people who are paid to do this. But if you do something really bad to me I will do the same to you.