Mother sentenced for twins’ deaths

A very sad story. A woman who was wrong to leave her children alone, yes, but who clearly couldn’t cope. I can’t begin to imagine being in her shoes. Her real sentence is having to live with this terrible tragedy for the rest of her life.

Margiknot

The judge also mentioned ( during sentencing) that ‘tea lights were being used. The mother also smoked. I don’t know if the tea lights were the candle type or battery type. I can’t imagine using candles with small children running around.
This house fire was tragic. 4 little boys! But leaving them awake ( I don’t know if they were awake when left- it was early evening) and alone if there were candles lit - is unthinkable .

They must have been awake because they ran upstairs and banged on the window.
A neighbour tried to break down the door to try to get in to rescue them but couldn't.
Just tragic.

valdali

It's all very well being devastated after the tragedy. But the grandparents and husband may not have "parental responsibility" but surely they should have tried their utmost to help with practicalities when a mum has overwhelming responsibilities like 3 yo plus 4 yo twins?
I'm sure the poor mum is 10 times as devastated as them.

Well the judge said they did help. I'm assuming he didn't just make that up. He said her parents the fathers mother and grandmother and the father.

She was out shopping and chatting to her friend while her children were dying. Her friend said she sounded normal chatting and laughing. She was then quite capable of making up a lie about someone being with the children to cover her own back. She wasn't so devastated that she couldn't put herself first and to hell with the firefighters who then risked their lives to find this person.

She has a terrible burden to live with but it was her who took the risk.

I was very sad and sorry to read this story when it broke, they looked adorable little boys. I went to school with twins who had siblings who were twins and these two sets were so close in age, the logistics of managing 4 children under 5 would be more than full on for anyone, I don't think that can be under estimated, especially as a lone parent. Having said that I never understand, when I read about houses that are smeared with excrement, maybe one of the kids took their nappy off and did that, but no matter how stressed, even if everything else went to pot, that would have to be cleaned off the wall. I didn't read how long she was out for, maybe it wasn't that long, I know Sutton, Sainsbury's is in the high street, possibly she popped out for some emergency provision, shame she didn't ask the friend to stay with the boys whilst she did that.. Nevertheless, leaving little 'uns with tea lights on a recipe for disaster, they were so young certainly they didn't have the wherewithal to know what to do. I can't help having some sympathy for her, she shouldn't have done it of course, but she's lost all her children. I was more angry with a teenage mother a couple of years ago who went on a 6 day partying spree leaving her 18 month old on her own for that duration. I remember feeling at the time, "what is it you don't understand that any sentient being cannot be left without sustenance for that long, let alone a baby, who had died in her absence.

As much as the boys in this instance died from the mother's negligence exacerbated by MH issues, I don't think prison is the right place for her.

It's all very well being devastated after the tragedy. But the grandparents and husband may not have "parental responsibility" but surely they should have tried their utmost to help with practicalities when a mum has overwhelming responsibilities like 3 yo plus 4 yo twins?
I'm sure the poor mum is 10 times as devastated as them.

Allsorts

Where are the fathers! Where is the family. Four children neglected and now dead. Social Services are over stretched. This was a person that would need constant monitoring and assessment. She knows right from wrong. She should never be allowed to have more children
. .

And the milk of human kindness just keeps on flowing, not 😡

The judge also mentioned ( during sentencing) that ‘tea lights were being used. The mother also smoked. I don’t know if the tea lights were the candle type or battery type. I can’t imagine using candles with small children running around.
This house fire was tragic. 4 little boys! But leaving them awake ( I don’t know if they were awake when left- it was early evening) and alone if there were candles lit - is unthinkable .

None of us know anything about her family. Perhaps she stopped them from visiting, who knows? I agree that prison is not the right place for her as she would probably suffer at the hands of the other prisoners. I think she needs specialist mental health help so should be held in a MH hospital. A tragedy all round. It breaks my heart that so many little children are dying recently.

Allira

^and she us nearly blind^

I have seen no reports that that is the case.

It was mentioned at sentencing by the judge. He had medical reports on her mental health but also about her eye condition and her discharging herself from hospital. This was after the boys died.

and she us nearly blind

I have seen no reports that that is the case.

rafichagran

This lady had mental health problems and she us nearly blind. The loss of her children must be very hard to bear. Also she did ask for help as she was not coping.
The above said, let's not forget she lied to the fire fighters who put their lives at risk to go back in to a burning building, mental health is no excuse for lying like that, and she needs to be punished for that.
Ten years in my opinion is too long, but I hope she gets the help she needs, also she may not serve her full sentence.

She refused treatment for her eye condition and discharged herself from hospital. Another very bad decision she made.

Rose also lied to the firefighters about leaving them with a babysitter, thus putting the firefighters' lives at risk when they went back into the fire to search for this non-existent person.
Yes, that was stupid. I'm not saying that any of it is anything other than awful. I just wonder how much is because of her inadequacy as opposed to wickedness, and I can't help comparing her case to the McCanns.

Poor kids. Someone would have loved them and been a better parent than her. Why didn’t social services pick something up?

HousePlantQueen

On MN a lot of posters are raging at the Father and extended family, and I agree. All the weeping and wailing when they must have known the unimaginable conditions these four little boys were living in. If they didn't know, why didn't they? Where were the grandparents, aunts and uncles who should have been helping a mentally ill mother with four babies. It happens every time, the mother gets blamed, the absentee father gets the sympathy.

Well at sentencing the judge said, "Your parents, Dalton’s grandmother, mother and step-father, and to some extent
Dalton himself, all played a role in assisting with care." So they were helping.

How are these people all being blamed when she was the one who left those children alone in a dangerous house?

This lady had mental health problems and she us nearly blind. The loss of her children must be very hard to bear. Also she did ask for help as she was not coping.
The above said, let's not forget she lied to the fire fighters who put their lives at risk to go back in to a burning building, mental health is no excuse for lying like that, and she needs to be punished for that.
Ten years in my opinion is too long, but I hope she gets the help she needs, also she may not serve her full sentence.

HousePlantQueen

On MN a lot of posters are raging at the Father and extended family, and I agree. All the weeping and wailing when they must have known the unimaginable conditions these four little boys were living in. If they didn't know, why didn't they? Where were the grandparents, aunts and uncles who should have been helping a mentally ill mother with four babies. It happens every time, the mother gets blamed, the absentee father gets the sympathy.

If they didn't know, why didn't they?

If she'd kept them from visiting but the boys always seemed happy, fed and looked after when the relatives saw them, how would they know?

The boys weren't old enough to realise their conditions they lived in were unusual.
Why on earth was there a mattress and a door on the stairs?

The authorities have questions to answer yet again.

I think this is also down to a breakdown in communities. I was brought up in a close knit community in a small mill town in Lancashire. My parents would leave myself and sister alone in the house at times when we were quite small but our auntie and uncle lived two doors up, our nana was on the next street and other aunties and uncles lived nearby as well as neighbours who were like relatives, so we might have been alone but our front door was unlocked as was everybody else’s so relatives and neighbours rarely left us alone for long. Indeed a neighbour widowed at a very young age was left with a small child and we all knew she struggled so the child was in and out of all our houses, being fed, given hand me downs, and the mother frequently received a covered dish for dinner or a small amount of money that was never expected to be paid back despite everyone being strapped for cash. That’s how we survived the hard times. But now parents like this poor woman are isolated and have to struggle to cope alone.

On MN a lot of posters are raging at the Father and extended family, and I agree. All the weeping and wailing when they must have known the unimaginable conditions these four little boys were living in. If they didn't know, why didn't they? Where were the grandparents, aunts and uncles who should have been helping a mentally ill mother with four babies. It happens every time, the mother gets blamed, the absentee father gets the sympathy.

Doodledog

It's a tragic story. Who knows - maybe she lost control of the house, and was too embarrassed to let people in and see the mess?

Going to Sainsbury's, if it was a 10 minute walk is no better or worse than the McCanns going to dinner and leaving little ones alone. Terrible consequences, and not something I ever did, but the differences in the way the two cases have been treated is stark.

I'm not defending her really. But I can't imagine what having so many children so young must be like as a single parent, and coupled with MH issues or learning difficulties and no obvious support, life must have been incredibly difficult for her. Ten years, as well as the guilt she must be feeling seems very harsh.

Rose also lied to the firefighters about leaving them with a babysitter, thus putting the firefighters' lives at risk when they went back into the fire to search for this non-existent person.

I can say honestly hand on my heart, if I thought my grandkids were in danger of neglect and I was being refused access, I would kick the door down, yes the Police would come, and I'd kick up such a fuss.
Maybe then the authorities would see with their own eyes the devastation and mess before them... And to hell with the consequences for me. Children come first.

It's a tragic story. Who knows - maybe she lost control of the house, and was too embarrassed to let people in and see the mess?

Going to Sainsbury's, if it was a 10 minute walk is no better or worse than the McCanns going to dinner and leaving little ones alone. Terrible consequences, and not something I ever did, but the differences in the way the two cases have been treated is stark.

I'm not defending her really. But I can't imagine what having so many children so young must be like as a single parent, and coupled with MH issues or learning difficulties and no obvious support, life must have been incredibly difficult for her. Ten years, as well as the guilt she must be feeling seems very harsh.

woodenspoon

For those who want the true picture it’s online at suttonguardian. She refused help. Social workers, health visitors, fathers family all tried to help but it was refused.

That in itself was a red flag for the authorities.

Thanks woodenspoon.

No not fact theworriedwell, just my opinion.

I agree, the children should have been in care, where they would never have been in the sole charge of one inadequate woman.
Our totally broken social system allowed this tragedy to happen then the mother was punished for it.

For those who want the true picture it’s online at suttonguardian. She refused help. Social workers, health visitors, fathers family all tried to help but it was refused.