James Bulger

Totally agree. They were 2 children damaged beyond belief and it turned them into monsters. There were 3 child victims.

Doodledog

James (not Jamie's) father is dead, but Denise Bulger (as was) is alive. This was discussed upthread.

Sorry, I obviously missed it. Thank you.

James (not Jamie's) father is dead, but Denise Bulger (as was) is alive. This was discussed upthread.

crazyH

Very, very sad case. I hope Denise and Jamie’s Dad are coping ok. Time eases the pain, though it will never go away.

Am I right in thinking that Denise passed away?

nanna8

I have read the thread . The act was passed in 2002 so would apply now. Probably nothing like that applies in the UK I suppose.

As is mentioned on the thread (previous page) the law was changed as a result of the Mary Bell case so that it is now illegal to profit from crime. The book came out in 1995, so it must have been after that - I haven't got time to look it up, but the law here may well be the one you mention. The timing certainly sounds right.

I have read the thread . The act was passed in 2002 so would apply now. Probably nothing like that applies in the UK I suppose.

If you read the thread you would have seen you have confused the dates.

I thought there was a rule stopping people profiting from crime in that way. The Commonwealth Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.

I’ve re-visited the psychiatric evaluations. Dr Bentovin and Sue Bailey, forensic psychiatrist talked with Thompson and Venebles. I’d forgotten they concluded both boys suffered ptsd as a result of murdering James and their trial. They would have benefitted from psychological and psychiatric intervention before the trial but this was denied due to the fear of damaging the trial

Agreed, Iam. There are a lot of overlaps, and whereas I understand people's feelings about Bell profiting from what she did, the fact that it has been written about and the book is in the public domain means that people can understand more about what drives children to do this. I don't know what was involved in the collaboration with Gitta Sereny, but for all we know it could have taken a long time, and it would almost certainly have been distressing for her.

I might revisit the book as a result of this thread. The Bulger essay in it is very good too, as is As If by Blake Morrison. Neither is sensationalist or prurient. They are both intelligent reports about the trial(s) with an attempt to understand what drove the boys to do what they did.

Anniebach

She should have charged the men who abused her, doubt a child would think of that.

Two little children were killed by a child who had been so violently sexually and physically abused

End of this discussion

Anniebach, you posted relevant information about the abuse Mary Bell suffered before she murdered another child. That’s in many ways, the stsrt, not the end of the discussion. Mary’s childhood experiences were similar to the boys who murdered James.
I don’t believe they should have been tried in a formal criminal court. There needed to be a formal setting to establish guilt or innocence but not a formal criminal court

The Secure Units where they served the earlier part of their sentence provide structure, routines, education, sports, art and more. It’s clear one boy thrived as a result of the regime and relationships with staff.
I’m relieved we were able to offer this

I think that children who kill are very different from adults who do so.

My son was the same age as James, and when the killers were released he was the same age as they were at the time of the killing. That brought it into sharp relief for me. When James was killed I was pregnant and had a toddler, so 11 year olds seemed grown up by comparison. When my son was 11, I realised how very young that is. Their ideas aren't fully formed - much of what they know about right and wrong (and an intelligent adult is aware that these things are not cast in stone) is more about what they have been told, and the likely consequences if they are caught. Those boys were taught a very different value system from most children, and were not old enough to 'rise above it'. Much the same as Mary Bell.

I don't think we should ever write off children as young as 11. Both cases were dreadful, and of course the families of the victims deserve our sympathy; but whilst I have no compunction about people like Hindley and Brady being jailed for life, I do feel that we should treat children differently.

May I add, She didn’t have £50,000, she did accept a third of that

A link to the James Bulger Memorial Trust
forjames.org/

I agree with Annie have to say - particularly that the police leaking Mary Bell's details to the press was a) cruel & b) professional misconduct.

The widening of the discussion is relevant and respectful, not to mention informative and thought provoking.

Why, children killed by children

What a pity this thread about James got derailed.

@crossstitchfan Denise Bulger hasn’t died. Her ex husband, James’ father died in 1994

She should have charged the men who abused her, doubt a child would think of that.

Two little children were killed by a child who had been so violently sexually and physically abused

End of this discussion

She killed two little boys Annie. Her circumstances meant that she was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. Her circumstances do not excuse what she did in my eyes, nor in the eyes of the law. They obviously do in yours. I have not commented on the police divulging any information which they should not have, so please don’t twist my words. That’s my final post on this matter.

But acceptable for police to tell the press where she lived and her name.

All that little girl suffered yet you call her a criminal, no, she was a victim

The public were outraged that she had received money for telling her story, which led to the law being changed. Yes I am comfortable with calling a child a criminal. Anyone found guilty of having committed a crime is a criminal.

Yes, it describes how the police told the press where she was living and her name, public outrage? No public demand, the press wouldn’t have been interested if the public didn’t want to
read it.

You are comfortable calling a child a criminal? Your choice

That was from 1998, 27 years ago Annie. She has only herself to blame for the public outrage caused by taking money to collaborate with the author of the book. She could just have kept her head down and lived a quiet life.