How important are qualifications?

Judy54

Not everyone is academic and university life is not necessarily for them. There should be more encouragement for Apprenticeships. As well as Doctors, Nurses and Solicitors we will always need skilled Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers etc. My Nephew (not academic) became an Apprentice Motor Mechanic and absolutely loves his job. There is room for everyone and no one has a right to look down on or belittle somewhat because they feel their education and work style choices are not as good as theirs.

Indeed.

Many are not academic and would find University life daunting. We're perfectly content with our non academic choices.

The two people that I know that have been the most successful career wise both left school with no qualifications whatsoever.

I absolutely do agree that people can lead very successful lives without an academic qualification, but the point that I was trying to answer was whether qualifications are important.

Without the basics of a degree many careers cannot be entered, so I gave examples of my family.

However, I do have family members without having left with a degree if any sort, because they are not academically inclined. One GS is apprenticed as a joiner, another nephew is completing his training as a mechanical engineer specialising in formula racing cars.

Both as happy and successful as everyone else. Once training is complete and they have the necessary qualifications they will then apply for a job I assume.

I hadn’t quite thought my original answer through.

So all of my family had obtained the necessary qualifications before applying for their chosen career, at whatever level of education.

I did a degree course with the Open University many years ago ,when it first became available.It was free then!

So Elegran, there are many reasons why some people don't get an education, ill health making them miss a lot of school, or like someone I know, missed a lot of school and didn't realise why until her mid-sixties that her sleepless nights were caused by a dreadful secret that her mind had hidden from her all those years ago. "Sweeping things under the carpet", hoping that all will be forgotten.

M0nica - Tony Blair was motivated by wanting the EU to compare well internationally. At that time, the UK had a smaller proportion of workforce with a university level qualifications than elsewhere. It was thought to be one of the reasons for lower productivity in the UK. There was a big focus on improving the UK's competitiveness and this was thought to be one of the ways of achieving this.
Like you, I have never thought that it was the right solution - especially as the investment in higher education came at the expense of a greater investment in further education - in the vocational skills that are critical at work.
The 50% of people who don't get to go to university have little access to post-18 education and are very overlooked in my opinion. At age 18, my local authority employer gave me day release and I did OND and HND courses at local tech (FE) colleges. Normal in the 70s, but unheard of now.
(PS I cannot thank Harold Wilson enough for starting up the Open University - I left school at 16. I did my OU degree in my late 20s while I was raising my kids, and an employer subsidised MSc in my 40s. I studied very different subjects from the narrow offer at my girl's grammer school, which I loved and led onto a successful career.)

My father was the top boy of his grammar school but had parents who didn't believe in education, especially for girls, so his sisters weren't even allowed to take the scholarship exam. He became an accountant, paying for his own articles. Had he been born later, in the era of grants etc, he probably would have gone to university, maybe even Oxbridge. My grandfather sacrificed to pay for my mother to go to teacher training college to give her the opportunities she wanted. Thankfully grants came in after her first year so he didn't have to pay for all her training.

I was fortunate to gain a degree in the era of student grants which my parents contributed to. I married an Oxford scholar whose father and brother both went to Cambridge, so we all believe education to be a good thing. However having worked in schools for many years I know that higher education is not for everyone. The push towards every child taking large numbers of academic GCSE's puts enormous pressure on many kids who would be better off taking more practical or vocational courses. Certain politicians have a lot to answer for!

My own DS and DD both have degrees and the huge associated loans to go with them. Both got a small grant as well because at the time they went to university I had become a single mum so my ex wasn't included in the assessment. Both worked while studying to make ends meet. My DD currently works in Dubai, so has earned enough to pay off her student loan while DS is probably still paying his off, but he couldn't be in his job without that degree or the PhD that followed which he managed to get fully funded.
The people I feel sorry for are those who came out with a degree that didn't get them the high earning job they aspired to, but still gave them all the debt. I was never a high earner but I never had any debt either.

I save for my grandchildren in the hope that they will be helped to have whatever education they aspire to, but if that isn't the directon they go, they can use it however they want. I believe there is more to education than simply getting a qualification for a job, but with the high cost of student loans people can't necessarily enjoy education for its own sake.

I have a degree but now I'm retired who cares! Needed it to do my chosen profession,teaching...but now..I am however doing a unique short course on autism not for the qualification as that is neither here or the rebut my weegrandaughter is autistic and non verbal so doing it out of interest and for her. Hard work and a lot of deadlines but it's keeping my brain ticking over! Lol

Like many others I did not get any A levels
nor did I go to university, both of which would be required for the job in a path lab which I loved. I studied all departments and took an intermediate exam then specialised in haematology. I never took my finals, as I was married by then and started a family. But I returned from time to time when asked covering for maternity leave for example, and doing several stints as a phlebotomist. So no I have no degree but I do have other "qualifications. I remember being asked to join a group for people who attended university but had to say sorry but I hadn't been to one. A few eyebrows were raised!!

"Which would be required NOW" for the job in a path lab.

I was the only one in my family to go to uni. I went because I was curious and wanted to learn and finally became an academic. My brother, who left school at 16, used to throw insults at me because of it, education being a waste of time and money which gave people (me in articular) airs and graces. He and his childhood friends who all left school at 15 or 16 were contemptuous and insulting about it, saying how worthless university was and worse it made useless people, who were only in education because they couldn't do anything useful, feel superior. I made the mistake of pointing out that they wouldn't want to fly in an aircraft designed by unqualified people, or have an operation from someone who hadn't had years of study and so on. As my brother took this as insulting his greater intelligence we haven't really spoken for years. It's a relief all round 😆

Qualifications are important enough for certain government ministers to lie about them on their CV

Just depends what you want to do. But I know many people without qualifications who are hugely intelligent and excellent at their job.

👏👏👏 Today the culprit said that referring to himself as a solicitor was a form of shorthand. I’ve heard it all now. I call it a form of lying.

orly

Qualifications are important enough for certain government ministers to lie about them on their CV

My DH was from a modest immigrant family. Qualifications certainly changed his life and his future.

When I first arrived in the UK, I did not have any UK work experience but I managed to get a job as a trainee on the lowest salary scale with the local government.

First week at work, I went to the HR manager and said to him that by right, I should be at the top of the trainee salary scale since I have the necessary qualifications.

He sent my overseas qualifications for verification and a few weeks later, I received a letter which stated that my qualifications had been verified to be equivalent to UK HND level, so my salary will adjust accordingly to the top of the trainee salary scale.

Many years later, I wanted to sponsor my British husband and daughter to permanent residence in my country of origin in South East Asia. Also because I wanted to buy a property there.

I heard from the grapevine, if I, the sponsor, were to have a degree, the computer will say ‘yes’.

So I went to the bank, took out a loan and started an 18 months long distance degree course with a college in Scotland. At the end of the course, the college merged with a university, so my degree was issued by the university.

I was really chaffed about this especially when I found it was an actual university, not a former polytechnic.

The computer did say yes.

So, my qualifications have been rather important to me.

M0nica

Qualifications are needed for lots of professions, but there should be more than one way of obtaining them.

By making it necessary for people to get degrees to get all the qualifications you mention in your post Whitewave many people are being excluded from careers they could excel in.

While I agree that pharmacy is probably a degree only subject. I think there should be a way of someone obtaining environmental science qualifications without going to university, through a longer more incremental training system, that ends up with them getting a degree level qualification.

I agree with your posts on this subject M0nica . There should be more pathways to good jobs besides always having to get the degree first. I’m of the opinion that job experience is often more valuable to an employer than the degree itself, although they do seem to want a degree for most jobs today.
Both my sons left school at 16, one got an engineering apprenticeship, and often speaks of new graduates coming in thinking they already know it all. He got a degree in his 30s whilst working and said he felt sorry for the students who’d come straight from school to university as they were really struggling, unlike him as he already had years of experience under his belt which he could apply to the degree course.

My other son got an admin role at the Environment agency where he worked his way up, he’s in his early 40s now so not really that long ago, I suppose ?
As he wanted to feel like he was on equal footing with his work colleagues he studied as a mature student with the Open University and got a degree in environmental sciences.
It’s not really that long ago in the dim and distance past is it ? but I do wonder if it would still possible to do this today?

Barleyfields

👏👏👏 Today the culprit said that referring to himself as a solicitor was a form of shorthand. I’ve heard it all now. I call it a form of lying.

Is it? I think a lot of people use a shorthand for their job title, as people might not know now what their job entails. A friend of mine briefly lived in a Red Wall town in the North. It had always been Labour but got a new Tory MP who claimed to be a Mental Nurse but it turned out that he was an unqualified Healthcare Assistant.

People know what a nurse is, and as far as being an MP goes it gives an idea of his background, in the same way as Jonathan Reynolds saying he was a solicitor when he had a law degree but hadn't completed the training contract (or whatever it was). If either of them had applied for a job in their field (ie as a nurse or a lawyer) it would be different, obviously.

Calling yourself a solicitor when you’re not is a criminal offence. I doubt anyone would have been confused if he had been truthful and called himself a trainee solicitor. The title is straightforward enough. But of course it doesn’t sound as good does it? It wasn’t a form of shorthand, it was a blatant attempt to deceive.

Judy54

Not everyone is academic and university life is not necessarily for them. There should be more encouragement for Apprenticeships. As well as Doctors, Nurses and Solicitors we will always need skilled Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers etc. My Nephew (not academic) became an Apprentice Motor Mechanic and absolutely loves his job. There is room for everyone and no one has a right to look down on or belittle somewhat because they feel their education and work style choices are not as good as theirs.

I agree, Judy54

Most posters are assuming that a degree or higher degree are the only qualifications entitled to be called Qualifications.

So - who would you call if you want your house rewired, other electrical jobs done in your home?
You are having a new bathroom or boiler fitted?
Carpentry tasks?
Your car made safe to drive?
An extension built?
A visit to the hairdresser?

We need well-qualified and skilled people more than ever. Businesses are having real problems recruiting skilled personnel because apprenticeships have been neglected at the expense of degree courses.

As for finding a painter and decorator - forget it until about next November.

Allira

As for finding a painter and decorator - forget it until about next November.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Frogs

Allira

As for finding a painter and decorator - forget it until about next November.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm not joking Frogs!!

I heard yesterday that the government is going to find it extremely difficult to get anywhere near its house building targets because of the lack of skilled tradesmen. Funnily enough, my husband and I said as much when they trotted the numbers out.