Sir Keir Starmer has vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts, describing the current system as “unsustainable, indefensible and unfair”.

MaggsMcG

That's his opinion and I'm not sure he's entirely right or wrong but why does he have to target disabled people. It should be the unemployed first.

I think it’s those who’ve never worked, are still young, have medical issues that can supported and help to get into work not just to “balance the books” but to allow these people to make a decent life for themselves.

Doodledog

Thanks, Iam.

theworriedwell, in my workplace people dreaded passive aggressive HR managers who paid lip service to fair practice, yet made it clear that jobs were on the line if we couldn't deliver what students were promised, then called people 'martyrs' when they did what they could to make that happen.

The same people may have been in senior positions but the most dreaded ones had no idea how to manage employees who took time off and passed their workloads on to others.

Martyrdom was never encouraged, but incompetent managers were.

Mmmm sounds like too places I’ve worked!

Years ago I returned to work after an early, but quite nasty, miscarriage and I was literally ostracised by make line managers.

For me it wasn’t an issue, I have always been able to stick up for myself (thank you stroppy Lancashire Mother, who insisted I spoke up when I witnessed injustice whether directed towards me or anyone else)

I just feel sorry for more vulnerable employees.

Male! Not make! Edit button pleeeeeeeez

After almost 40years, the RA I’d worked with for 30 years had me off long term sick for the first time. My team was struggling with many unallocated cases. I managed my case load from home for 6 months. HR and my manager visited, I updated on my wait to be well enough to start ‘the gold standard treatment which within 2 weeks would make clear if I could ever work again. Recommendation, you allow iam64 the time for this “. This was the recommendation of the ASOS doctor employed by my employer. The HR person told me if I didn’t resign now, I’d be ‘terminated’
The HR person clearly didn’t understand the report meant if they sacked me, I’d have a tribunal case. In fact the doc told me he’d phrased his report in knowledge they might sack me but if it went to tribunal, I’d succeed. My manager later apologised, had no idea of the HR plan and had told them if I was sacked, she’d speak for me at the tribunal, not the organisation.

theworriedwell

Iam64

Just a word of support for Doodledog - not a martyr, a responsible employee

Honestly the intention might be good but the reality is if you aren't well enough you won't be effective and then if you get worse you are off for longer. It is a really poor way to work.

Well given that you are making judgements on a situation you didn't see and are not aware of, I rest my case .

Just back from a holiday in the Canaries. Absolutely amazing to see so many kids out there with families clearly the perennial unemployed and just knowing my taxes and everyone else’s are paying for this. Yesterday at the airport one family alone had a mother who could barely walk, pushing a child in a wheelchair, another overweight girl barely able to walk, a boy, and a father in his vest shorts and flip flops padding through the airport stuffing food in as they walked. Controversial view coming up: after one child like that then no extra support or encouragement to have more. It’s obvious they have never worked yet can afford an all inclusive holiday. There were many more like them and that is just one airport in a snapshot of time.

For the rest of us, we work hard all our lives to afford holudays.

Gosh what powers you have! Able to deduce all that from just looking at a family.

It’s obvious to anybody. You included.

woodenspoon

Just back from a holiday in the Canaries. Absolutely amazing to see so many kids out there with families clearly the perennial unemployed and just knowing my taxes and everyone else’s are paying for this. Yesterday at the airport one family alone had a mother who could barely walk, pushing a child in a wheelchair, another overweight girl barely able to walk, a boy, and a father in his vest shorts and flip flops padding through the airport stuffing food in as they walked. Controversial view coming up: after one child like that then no extra support or encouragement to have more. It’s obvious they have never worked yet can afford an all inclusive holiday. There were many more like them and that is just one airport in a snapshot of time.

For the rest of us, we work hard all our lives to afford holudays.

Honestly? Did you interview them all?

When I was working in the jobcentre, some people couldn’t even afford a passport, let alone an all inclusive family holiday abroad!

Granniesunite

Gosh what powers you have! Able to deduce all that from just looking at a family.

I completely agree and I have no idea what woodenspoon means “just by looking at them” Such judgement!

If I walked into a shop, cafe or down Amy high street I certainly would not be able to pick out the unemployed people!

I was unemployed for a short time, as was my DH (at a different time to me) I wonder if we “looked” unemployed!

You have zero idea about these families backstories, stop being so utterly judgy!

Sometimes usernames tell us all we need to know, and you can tell people's motivation for posting 'just by looking'.

Gross stereotyping. Yes we know some people abuse the system and it needs to be tackled but we know nothing about the family. Spread stuff like that just buys into the prejudices which then label all those genuinely struggling on next to nothing as 'bad".

Doodledog

Sometimes usernames tell us all we need to know, and you can tell people's motivation for posting 'just by looking'.

Indeed! But quite a nasty statement all round frankly!

woodenspoon

It’s obvious to anybody. You included.

I tend not to judge any situation or circumstance based on uncertainty or lack of knowledge of the situation…

I make my decisions…if required of course….based on facts always have and always will.

Wyllow3

Gross stereotyping. Yes we know some people abuse the system and it needs to be tackled but we know nothing about the family. Spread stuff like that just buys into the prejudices which then label all those genuinely struggling on next to nothing as 'bad".

👏👏👏👏

Doodledog

theworriedwell

Iam64

Just a word of support for Doodledog - not a martyr, a responsible employee

Honestly the intention might be good but the reality is if you aren't well enough you won't be effective and then if you get worse you are off for longer. It is a really poor way to work.

Well given that you are making judgements on a situation you didn't see and are not aware of, I rest my case .

I'm going by what you said.

"I got pleurisy, and came back too soon, partly because there were real problems covering my role as we were already stretched because of colleague's absence. I ended up becoming really ill and had to go off sick again"

Do you really think being pressured into returning to work while you were still unwell was a good thing? Do you think going sick again because you became really ill was a good thing? I don't think it was good for you as it made you more sick, I think it was almost certainly more disruptive as you probably needed more time off overall than if you'd gone back to work when you were well.

HR managers, or any manager for that matter, who operates like that is are fools in my opinion, based on long experience. I'm sorry you ended up really ill and I'm sorry that you were made to feel you had to do and then feel you have to defend it.

Iam64

After almost 40years, the RA I’d worked with for 30 years had me off long term sick for the first time. My team was struggling with many unallocated cases. I managed my case load from home for 6 months. HR and my manager visited, I updated on my wait to be well enough to start ‘the gold standard treatment which within 2 weeks would make clear if I could ever work again. Recommendation, you allow iam64 the time for this “. This was the recommendation of the ASOS doctor employed by my employer. The HR person told me if I didn’t resign now, I’d be ‘terminated’
The HR person clearly didn’t understand the report meant if they sacked me, I’d have a tribunal case. In fact the doc told me he’d phrased his report in knowledge they might sack me but if it went to tribunal, I’d succeed. My manager later apologised, had no idea of the HR plan and had told them if I was sacked, she’d speak for me at the tribunal, not the organisation.

Again a failure by HR. Some don't seem to realise that good staff are a valuable asset and should be supported not abused.

Letting their employer down as well as the costs of winning your case would have been substantial.

I'm retired now but in my career I was taken to tribunal once, well they tried but it was thrown out before the actual hearing.

I’m well aware it was an HR failure, one of many. The ASOS doctor told me his experience of my employer led him to suspect they’d sack me, despite his carefully worded report which made clear they’d be sacking me unfairly.

I find your hectoring posts directed at Doodledog unnecessary and unpleasant .

Iam64

I’m well aware it was an HR failure, one of many. The ASOS doctor told me his experience of my employer led him to suspect they’d sack me, despite his carefully worded report which made clear they’d be sacking me unfairly.

I find your hectoring posts directed at Doodledog unnecessary and unpleasant .

Do you? Yet you see the HR behaviour as wrong or do you think making people feel they should go to work when they are ill is a good thing? Surely not.

I rember the late great Frank Field was told to go and 'think the unthinkable'.
He went away and thought it.

When Blair saw what the unthinkable involved he thought it was unthinkable and hoofed it into the long grass where it resides to this day.

"a mother who could barely walk, pushing a child in a wheelchair, another overweight girl barely able to walk, a boy, and a father in his vest shorts and flip flops padding through the airport stuffing food in as they walked.

Woodenspoon what do you mean by "after one child like that then no extra support or encouragement to have more."

woodenspoon

It’s obvious to anybody. You included.

How obvious?

Did they tell you?

You say one child was in a wheelchair.
There are many Trusts and charities which provide holidays for disabled children and their families.

I never thought that I would be reading a post from a GN member who is snootily looking down her nose at a disabled child and their family. This is a new low.

There but for the grace of God …

theworriedwell

Iam64

I’m well aware it was an HR failure, one of many. The ASOS doctor told me his experience of my employer led him to suspect they’d sack me, despite his carefully worded report which made clear they’d be sacking me unfairly.

I find your hectoring posts directed at Doodledog unnecessary and unpleasant .

Do you? Yet you see the HR behaviour as wrong or do you think making people feel they should go to work when they are ill is a good thing? Surely not.

Thank you again, Iam.

theworriedwell, the reality (which I lived) was that it was the attitude of HR that meant I knew that if I stayed off much longer there would be complaints from students who were already having classes that my colleague wasn't taking covered - some by me. They were paying a lot of money for a course, and the HR attitude was not to hire more staff but to threaten to close any courses that scored low on student satisfaction, which would have resulted in redundancies on my team.

Of course it is not good to have to go to work ill, but HR were to blame for not replacing my colleague (either permanently as she was patently incapable of carrying out the job for which she was paid, or temporarily whilst she was absent), and (b) for their constant messaging making it very plain that they were more concerned about the reputation of courses than about the welfare of staff.

So in answer to your question, it was HR's behaviour that was wrong because they made people feel they should go to work when ill.