Sir Keir Starmer has vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts, describing the current system as “unsustainable, indefensible and unfair”.

It is another thing that will play well with the Reform voters that Starmer wants to attract.

I don’t know what it is like there but here the most articulate tend to get the benefits, deserved or not. Unfortunately some have a hard time because they are not so good with words and they are the ones who often need it the most. Allowances and checks should be made for that situation.

To pick up on what Cabbie wrote:

Since 2013, working age adults have been moving from DLA to PIP. This has led to an increase in the number of people claiming PIP and a decrease in the number of people claiming DLA over time.

At October 2024 there were 3.6 million people claiming PIP, a 3% increase in just three months from July 2024.

What is striking is the steep rise in the number of people claiming since Covid - note the graph is to Feb 2023.

PIP new claims almost doubled between 2020 and 2023 (470,000 to 850,000)

The criteria for claiming the daily living part are to help with:

•preparing food
•eating and drinking
•managing your medicines or treatments
•washing and bathing
•using the toilet
•dressing and undressing
•reading
•managing your money
•socialising and being around other people
•talking, listening and understanding

and the mobilty part

•working out a route and following it
•physically moving around
•leaving your home

In March 2023, an estimated 1.9 million people in the UK reported that they were experiencing long Covid, the symptoms of which are said to be:

•extreme tiredness
•feeling short of breath
•problems with your memory and concentration
•heart palpitations
•dizziness
•joint pain and muscle aches
•loss of smell
•chest pain or tightness
•difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
•pins and needles
•depression and anxiety
•tinnitus, earaches
•feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
•cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or •taste
•rashes

So I think it’s fair to say that the steep rise in claims is at least partly to do with Covid but how long do those symptoms last?

I’m not convinced there is a clear correlation between those symptons and the criteria for PIP. Can anyone provide insight into that?

I have a nephew in his 30s who has never worked a full week in his life. He had a mega problem getting out of bed before midday when he was supposedly looking for work. He went through our education system and cannot read or write. He cannot be alone.

He should be given the opportunity to learn to read and write, and I would reduce his benefits. He has a one-bedroom flat, which is no doubt paid for.

Primrose53

He would do better concentrating on The Speaker who has spent £250,000on luxury flights for himself and his wife and two staff all over the world.

He already gets to live in an extremely opulent palace.

I thought his job was to keep order in the House of Commons, not travel the world in luxury.
He's not the Foreign Secretary.

Primrose53

He would do better concentrating on The Speaker who has spent £250,000on luxury flights for himself and his wife and two staff all over the world.

He already gets to live in an extremely opulent palace.

Really? 🤬 where does he go and why?

There are jobs out there but you have to be committed to get one, find transport and turn up to an interview looking tidy and prepared to answer questions.Beyond some.
I hope the government won’t do anything to affect PIP, it’s not easy to get in the first place or to keep and is given regardless of income to people like my neighbours son who has disabilities and sometimes can work but not always.

He would do better concentrating on The Speaker who has spent £250,000on luxury flights for himself and his wife and two staff all over the world.

He already gets to live in an extremely opulent palace.

It sounds like a bad thing and at first a return to austerity. However, I do know a few people who should be working but aren't because, as others would say, there is no incentive for them to do so.

In addition- what work are they actually going to do?

We need people to take on care sector, education, nursing and other jobs, but these also need training for.

We need investment in housing in particular, and all the associated trades.

If these cuts can somehow help to kick start these things then it could be the answer, but I'm not so sure...

So long as the intention behind changes to the system are to help people to work, rather than penalise people for being unable to do so, it can only be a good thing.

Just to be clear, some people who receive PIP are in work. It is not a work-replacement benefit, nor is it means-tested.

But it is such a tricky one.
On the one hand there are people with medical needs who do not have enough income to provide for their care needs, especially if they are unable to work, whilst others receive the same money in benefits but have no additional costs, when what they really need is not money but support to get into work. I have specific people in mind when making this comment.
And then there are those in genuine need who have been turned down for disability benefits, whilst others somehow manage to get an award to which in truth they are not entitled. The system is failing so many people.

I agree, based on what you have posted FGT. I haven't seen or heard any more than that, though.

I believe in a system that supports those who are unable to work - I think it should do so better than it currently does - but I also believe that everyone who can work should do so, so that the burden of taxation falls on everyone, and there are no freeloaders. If everyone pays in, there should be enough to increase public services for all, and for people to take breaks for things like looking after babies or even sabbaticals for other reasons, rather than some people working for decades and others hardly at all.

I have just looked up what he said.

PIP has been a controversial benefit since its inception. There are without doubt people on it whose disabilities do not stop them working, at least part time, but who have become reliant on it. I think we have to be understanding about that as it is so easy to lose confidence. I hope that the new system with take that into account and find ways of easing people back into work.

I used to work for an organisation that helped disabled people into work and crucially there was support available to help them sustain the employment - that was my job.

A relative is on PIP - unable to work because of executive functioning problems and mild ASD. There is no doubt that they are unemployable - but sadly they spend it on drugs.

When I was in social work it was clear the benefits system was not working efficiently for people with disabilities. There were people with minor degrees of disability who would have benefited from the dignity of work who were getting a lot of money each week to be at home - proper services to help them back into work are needed - but these would cost as much if not more than the benefits themselves.

And I used to visit people with major disabilities who had insufficient to live on, in spite of their benefits.

It is the grey area of hidden disabilities that causes a problem too. Very hard to assess without risking refusing benefit to someone who genuinely could not manage to work, and vice versa.

I do not envy the government in its task of sorting all this out.

Next they must tackle the care system ......... and the best of luck to them .........

Okay.
What Keir Starmer actually said:

Facing down the threat of a backbench revolt, the Prime Minister told Labour MPs that lax rules for claiming benefits “runs contrary to those deep British values that if you can work, you should”.

He said the UK had a “worst of all worlds” welfare system that actively “discourages” people from working and is on track to cost £70 billion a year by 2030.

Speaking to the parliamentary Labour Party on Monday evening, Sir Keir said: “We’ve found ourselves in a worst of all worlds situation – with the wrong incentives – discouraging people from working, the taxpayer funding a spiralling bill, £70 billion a year by 2030.

“A wasted generation. One in eight young people not in education, employment or training and the people who really need that safety net still not always getting the dignity they deserve.

“That’s unsustainable, it’s indefensible and it is unfair – people feel that in their bones.

“It runs contrary to those deep British values that if you can work, you should. And if you want to work, the government should support you, not stop you.”

Needs more context and detail. Inflammatory post as is.