To suffer from either alcohol consumption or social isolation?

What's the question?

I think that communal spaces are vital, and people don't need to drink alcohol just because premises are licensed. I don't drink much at all, but happily go to pubs and bars. I sometimes have a coffee and sometimes a soft drink. I might have a glass of wine with lunch, but that doesn't mean I'd drink a whole bottle.

The French are asking themselves the question, Doodledog. When 50,000 people a year die from alcohol poisoning, will opening more bars just add to this figure? Traditionally French rural bars are where you actually go to drink alcohol, you can feel a bit out of the loop if you don't!

I don't think it is a straight forward either or situation. A rural wine bar in France could become like the local in rural Britain where there is more socialising than heavy drinking.

Alcoholics are just as likely to drink alone I believe and they often prefer to do this as their consumption is unobserved and unmonitored. It would be both monitored and observed in a wine bar.

Alcoholism is a big problem in France but not everyone who regularly drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic.

Prefer to do this alone.

Agreed. Real problem drinking is more likely to happen behind closed doors, as it is cheaper to buy alcohol by the bottle and drink it at home than by the glass in a bar.

A centre for communities is very important, and now that even shops are thinner on the ground people really do need places to go to talk to other people, even if it's just to say hello.

I don't think it is a straight forward either or situation. A rural wine bar in France could become like the local in rural Britain where there is more socialising than heavy drinking.
I wondered that too. Could this bring a move towards a more pub/wine bar type setting with food choices, and televised sports etc. The French certainly like our pubs, so there could be an opening here.

The number of deaths caused by alcohol is rising rapidly in the UK whilst dozens of pubs are closing every month.

People will drink if they want to, where they want to. It's cheaper to drink at home so people probably drink more and faster there than they would in a pub.

Our local pub is busiest when there's a quiz or games night - generally people go to meet up with friends and have fun, not to get plastered.

To me it seems the social benefits (we all know what a killer loneliness can be) outweigh the potential downsides.

Euro News reports:

The proposal has faced resistance from left-wing party La France Insoumise, which argues that it could encourage alcoholism.

Kasbarian [the politician behind the proposal] says that these concerns are misguided, pointing out that 80% of alcohol is sold in supermarkets.

“In villages without bars, people don’t stop drinking," he told local media, "they simply consume alcohol at home, without any control. Closing bars and cafés does not fight alcoholism; it’s a misleading argument."

I often pop to the village pub (alone). I have a coffee or a soft drink as I don't drink alcohol. I take a book or even some knitting but usually end up chatting to one or more people who I may or may not already know. It's a social thing; a hub that's also popular with walkers and cyclists so an opportunity to meet people passing through.

I agree with Doodledog. The biggest danger is drinking behind closer doors. Drinking in publicandpeople ministers is a problem.

When we lived in Françe I drank shandy (panache) or apricot juice, the patron didn’t turn a hair.
Plenty of people in our local here dont drink alcohol. I agree with others on two counts - the secret drinking of alcoholics and the importance of community hubs.

My grandad lived in France. After he retired it was his morning habit to go to what he called his 'office' - a tiny, smoke filled cafe bar in the nearest town.

There he'd have an 11am coffee cognac and a good laugh with a group of men of all nationalities and backgrounds whom he'd known for donkeys years. His home was in a tiny, isolated hamlet and the office was his only socialisation on a daily basis. I'm sure it did him more good than harm.

I am a social drinker. Very bad habit to drink alone.

The last time I bought a round of drinks in a pub I nearly died of shock! I could have fed myself for a fortnight!!

Rural pubs have to work very hard to please everyone. They won’t survive otherwise.

Having been raised in pubs from the age of four, I found them to be far more than a watering hole even back in the 60’s.

It was a place for the elderly men to gather in the Public Bar, for a chat and a bite to eat, for some it was the only social activity they participated in.

There were darts tournaments between other pubs, along with entertainment events. The local rugby team didn’t have a club house so our public bar was their preferred alternative.

I have seen far more drunks on a park bench then in most pubs.

(my parents were divorced and both had their own pub/restaurants so apart from staying with grandparents that’s all I knew)

I rarely drink these days, would happily go to a bar or pub, especially a rural one, it’s great to socialise, it’s good for your mental and physical health and I would encourage it.

In the UK, many villages have taken over closing pubs to keep somewhere to socialise.

I sometimes go out for meals with my GD and her boy friend .
They are 26 and 30, neither of them drink but my glass of wine last time was £11:20.
I certainly wouldn’t be getting drunk on those prices.
A pub near me has stated a monthly knit and natter on Wednesday evening.
It is apparently very popular, lots more nattering than knitting and just the odd alcoholic drink.
It has formed friendships and getting out on their own for some.
A good social, successful experiment.

My knitting group is in a pub, and we all buy tea or coffee (it's on in the mornings). Similarly, I go to a weekly class that is held in a different pub, and again, the 'cost' of the room is that we all buy a soft drink. Pubs here often have special evenings with activities such as painting, crafts or tarot reading, and many people don't drink whilst the 'thing' is happening - some stay on for a drink later, and others drift off home.

I think that if pubs adapt to being community hubs they will survive, but if they stick to being drinking holes they will go under, as prices are high and more people drink at home these days than used to.

Doodle ours has a group playing dominoes and other games one afternoon a week, all the participants are retired, what’s more, as well as being sociable, it’s warm
It also has bingo evenings, quiz, inter pub football/pool/darts teams, coffee and cake Friday’s, meat draw (profits to the food bank), with a book club planned.
This spring there are separate events for men and women, proceeds to breast/prostate cancer, in the summer events for cystic fibrosis and crohn’s to support two local family’s
Adapt or die I think is the mantra

The local women's group I belong to meet in the pub, mornings it's coffees all round. Yesterday we had a meeting and we weren't the only group there. There are also evening meetings too which I haven't been to but may go to the next one, but I'll get my husband to drop me off rather than drive so I can have a glass. I agree they are more than drinking holes and are part of the social fabric of life in this country. I think the French initiative sounds like a good one. I think it's a great shame to see so many pubs closing, but perhaps they need to adapt and diversify to meet the changing habits of the population.

One of the reasons I always advise people wanting to move to France or elsewhere in Europe, is to RENT for a whole year, right through the seasons. Sitting outside on the square, in the sun, surrounder by chatter and laughter, good food, a nice glass of vino- sounds and feels idyllic. Then comes late october, the temps fall, the wind picks up, the bars and restaurants closed and half or more of the houses empty- and it is VERY different. And alcohol takes over. I've known just too many cases.

I have been in John B Keanes pub in Listowel and locals have come in with a mug of tea in their hands and sat and enjoyed the craic.

That’s what you call community.

I had to look up what craic actually meant Sago. It seems that, in the pub you mentioned, news, gossip, fun, entertainment, and enjoyable friendly conversation are more important than consuming alcohol. I'm guessing it takes quite a bit of effort on the part of the manager to ensure a convivial atmosphere. As said above, in rural areas once the weather turns, a bar might see little point in opening, and once again people are left to drink home alone.

escaped

I had to look up what craic actually meant Sago. It seems that, in the pub you mentioned, news, gossip, fun, entertainment, and enjoyable friendly conversation are more important than consuming alcohol. I'm guessing it takes quite a bit of effort on the part of the manager to ensure a convivial atmosphere. As said above, in rural areas once the weather turns, a bar might see little point in opening, and once again people are left to drink home alone.

J B Keanes is what was the writer John B’s pub.
It is now owned and run by his lovely son Billy, Billy is something of a local celebrity, he doesn’t write plays like his late father but a weekly column in the Irish Independent.
our families go back a long way.
His pub is something to behold.