Astonished by the number of PIP claimants!

PIPis not meant to subsidise UC, but the basic rate for UC is very low. Single adults below age 35 who need to pay for housing are only allowed the local single room allowance which is often woefully below the cost of actually renting a room in a shared house or flat. I don’t know but I wonder if this is part of the reason people who are too unwell to earn a living wage need to use their PIP to top up their basic living costs?

I looked it up for Australia and it is 3.9% on disability support pensions here which the government is concerned about. They are looking into the eligibility criteria. No idea how or when anything is likely to change.

Silverbrooks

I come back to what I posted yesterday evening. What is the PIP money for?

Margiknot gives a very good example of how her adult son who has learning difficulties uses PIP to gain some independence.

But what about the hundreds of thousands of people claiming PIP for anxiety or depression?

I stress I am not suggesting that the symptoms of either aren’t sometimes extremely debilitating.

I can see how someone might score 8 points on the DLA scale, especially in the category Engaging with other people face to face.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

If I am understanding this, they would be awarded the lower weekly amount of £72.65 per week.

That’s a very specific amount. It would be useful to know how Government arrive at that.

How might someone who is anxious and depressed spend £72.65 a week to gain independence that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to have?

Can anyone give some examples please?

Now that the Mental Health system has shrunk so much, people are using PIP money to pay for carers for the people contact/leaving home/assist in what people would do socially on the most ordinary levels instead of condition worsening.

It used to be that Mental Health services for adults had weekly nurse visits, plus OT support, plus day or drop in centres. This has been wiped out completely, and its a valid use of PIP.

Many people claiming PIP are in work.

What is the cash spent on?

Well, if in work it could be spent on private taxis (anxiety on public transport, or unable to utilise public transport due to mobility issues), it could be used to pay for alternative treatments for any physical issues (massages, chiropractor, acupuncture, osteopath)

It could be used for incontinent pads or pants.

It could be used towards pore options costs.

There’s a whole host of things it could be used towards and there are a whole list of debilitating physical issues which hinder people’s everyday lives.

I’m retired, but when I was working at my last job in Civil Service, there were many people with quite serious disabilities who utilised their PIP awards to allow them to continue to work, many of them full time.

I have no doubt that there are fraudulent claims being made but PIP is an absolute Godsend to many. I know many disabled people who have used it to support their independent living. I’m disabled and am in receipt of PIP. Some of it I use to keep my car going, without it I wouldn’t be able to leave the house. The bus stop is too far away for me to walk to and taxis are extortionate. I’ve used it to make some adaptations in my home and very possibly I will need help to clean my home soon. That said, I’m having some operations and I’m hoping that I’ll be able to work again, though it will probably be a low paid, part time job. I will definitely need my car to do that. If/when I lose my PIP then, like many, I lose my lifeline. I’ll be pretty much housebound and will struggle to live any kind of meaningful life. Sounds drastic I know but for many of us that will be the reality. Disabled people will be adversely affected by the cuts the Labour government is making and that is never right.

People with mental health conditions maybe using their PIP towards their therapy, even MIND sessions are no longer free and those which are free, like Therapy for You have waiting lists exceeding two years.

Gloriana

There is already an Access to Work scheme which pays for additional needs enabling a claimant to work. This can be quite generous according to what the needs are, so I wonder what any new measures to help people to work might include. Do any Gransnetters have experience of the present scheme?

Yes! Firstly it’s not available to most people working in certain public service roles (I previously worked for DWP)

Access to Work only kicks in once the claimant actually starts a job, it’s also a very expensive and slow moving scheme.

People can wait up to 12 months for the help etc to actually materialise.

In theory a great scheme, in practice….

Margiknot

PIPis not meant to subsidise UC, but the basic rate for UC is very low. Single adults below age 35 who need to pay for housing are only allowed the local single room allowance which is often woefully below the cost of actually renting a room in a shared house or flat. I don’t know but I wonder if this is part of the reason people who are too unwell to earn a living wage need to use their PIP to top up their basic living costs?

This publication from the Resolution Foundation agrees with you: www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2024/06/20-Under-strain.pdf

There's an incentive for people to be classified as in need of PIP because it's a stable benefit, doesn't require people to look for work and is a gateway to other benefits. People can't be blamed for looking after their own needs, but the system needs looking at.

My first and foremost thought when reading this is that those who do qualify and actually get awarded PIP (the many who are genuine), would much rather not have to claim this benefit but rather have a life free of serious physical and/or mental health issues and live life to the full.

I speak from personal experience!

growstuff

It’s impossible to live though on PIP alone, even the highest rates wouldn’t be enough to cover day to day living costs, bills and rent, so it’s a bit of a misnomer to describe it thus.

Gillycats

I have no doubt that there are fraudulent claims being made but PIP is an absolute Godsend to many. I know many disabled people who have used it to support their independent living. I’m disabled and am in receipt of PIP. Some of it I use to keep my car going, without it I wouldn’t be able to leave the house. The bus stop is too far away for me to walk to and taxis are extortionate. I’ve used it to make some adaptations in my home and very possibly I will need help to clean my home soon. That said, I’m having some operations and I’m hoping that I’ll be able to work again, though it will probably be a low paid, part time job. I will definitely need my car to do that. If/when I lose my PIP then, like many, I lose my lifeline. I’ll be pretty much housebound and will struggle to live any kind of meaningful life. Sounds drastic I know but for many of us that will be the reality. Disabled people will be adversely affected by the cuts the Labour government is making and that is never right.

I hope that operations do give you some relief and you can live a better life. Nevertheless, it's wrong that you might end up worse off financially. There's a disincentive for you to have medical treatment and look for work. The system needs changing, so that you are helped to stay in work by sympathetic employers and possibly given some kind of financial support, but not PIP. Maybe grants should be available for people to make adaptations to their homes.

PIP isn't a gateway benefit. As in if you get PIP you get housing/dentist/ other benefits. Its separate from means tested benefits.

Cossy

My first and foremost thought when reading this is that those who do qualify and actually get awarded PIP (the many who are genuine), would much rather not have to claim this benefit but rather have a life free of serious physical and/or mental health issues and live life to the full.

I speak from personal experience!

Of course you're right that there are many genuine claimants and of course they deserve every penny if it contributes towards a better quality of life.

The Resolution Foundation claims that 15% of working age adults receive some kind of disability benefit and that the number has mushroomed in recent years. PIP shouldn't be subsidising inadequate unemployment benefits. It should be used to pay for additional needs.

It seems that the desire to undersupport the unemployed - apart from those with illnesses/disabilities - has led to unintended consequences. There is a definite incentive to have oneself assessed as ill/disabled.

Wyllow3

PIP isn't a gateway benefit. As in if you get PIP you get housing/dentist/ other benefits. Its separate from means tested benefits.

Sorry to be clear PIP is not a gateway benefit so you DON'T get any access to the gateway benefits that people on UC or ESA get.

Wyllow3

PIP isn't a gateway benefit. As in if you get PIP you get housing/dentist/ other benefits. Its separate from means tested benefits.

This is from the DWP site:

"Entitlement to PIP provides a gateway or passport to other benefits, such as Carer’s Allowance, and schemes sponsored by other departments, such as the Blue Badge scheme.

For many benefits and schemes there are additional qualifying conditions. For some schemes, such as Blue Badge, there are alternative ways of accessing the benefit that do not rely on a particular rate or component of PIP.

For DWP benefits, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Reduction, we share information to enable claimants to automatically access other disability benefits and services. However, claimants should inform other benefit offices about their entitlement to make sure they’re paid the correct amounts, particularly if there are any changes in their circumstances and awards. In most cases, claimants will need to use their PIP award letter as proof of entitlement.

All references to a disabled child or disabled children made for passporting purposes apply only to a qualifying young person aged 16 or over, because PIP is not available to children under the age of 16.

Carers may be able to claim Income Support (including for up to 26 weeks while the PIP claim is being assessed). And many carers may continue claiming Income Support after PIP is awarded.

An award of PIP may enable claimants to access means-tested benefits even if they have previously been told they are not entitled to do so. Claimants should seek advice if in doubt.

It may be possible to backdate passported benefits to the start of the PIP award."

Since the pandemic, the number of working-age people receiving PIP has more than doubled from 15,300 to 35,100 a month. The number of young people (16-24) receiving PIP per month has also skyrocketed from 2,967 to 7,857 a month.18 Mar 2025

Maybe people grew to like the lifestyle of being paid to stay at home and decided to subsidise their UC payments with PIP.
Of course, there will be some suffering the effects of the pandemic, long Covid etc, but the figures do seem to be very high.

www.gov.uk/government/news/biggest-shake-up-to-welfare-system-in-a-generation-to-get-britain-working#:~:text=Since%20the%20pandemic%2C%20the%20number,2%2C967%20to%207%2C857%20a%20month.

Wyllow3

Wyllow3

PIP isn't a gateway benefit. As in if you get PIP you get housing/dentist/ other benefits. Its separate from means tested benefits.

Sorry to be clear PIP is not a gateway benefit so you DON'T get any access to the gateway benefits that people on UC or ESA get.

PIP doesn't count as income when eligibility for the NHS's low income scheme is assessed, so somebody whose only income is PIP would get free dental care, prescriptions, etc. On the other hand, UC does count as income and can be taxed and tip people over the eligibility for free healthcare, if they have worked in paid employment during that tax year.

Thank you for your kind words Growstuff.

I see what you mean Growstuff its not the traditional "gateway" package that you get for example for Credit or UCredit.
What I meant was that PIP as such isn't a gateway like means tested benefits (except as you have pointed out for blue badge or carers allowance or disabled bus passes).

A carer can only claim allowance if their own income is under £151 a week and they provide 35 hours of week care.

Goodness, it's complicated.

I know a young girl who is autistic and was never expected to live independently. She got a place at college but was totally unable to travel there by bus.
A PIP assessment gave her the funds to learn to drive and her independence blossomed. Her eligibility for PIP ended but she now works full time and lives in her own home.
Surely PIP has been a lifeline for some, but has been over-used.

watermeadow

I know a young girl who is autistic and was never expected to live independently. She got a place at college but was totally unable to travel there by bus.
A PIP assessment gave her the funds to learn to drive and her independence blossomed. Her eligibility for PIP ended but she now works full time and lives in her own home.
Surely PIP has been a lifeline for some, but has been over-used.

I’m not sure, with a lifelong condition such as Autism, why this young lady would no longer be eligible unless her assessment period ended (1-10 years) and they either didn’t go to the assessment or the flawed assessment system “failed” her.

Wyllow3

I see what you mean Growstuff its not the traditional "gateway" package that you get for example for Credit or UCredit.
What I meant was that PIP as such isn't a gateway like means tested benefits (except as you have pointed out for blue badge or carers allowance or disabled bus passes).

A carer can only claim allowance if their own income is under £151 a week and they provide 35 hours of week care.

Goodness, it's complicated.

It’s complicated, a minefield and tbh not done “fairly” Unlike a written application to other benefits (Housing Benefit, UC etc) done from a form and all assessed by very strict rules, the flawed assessment systems used for both sickness benefit and PIP are utterly horrendous and appear not to follow a pattern

Wyllow3

Silverbrooks

I come back to what I posted yesterday evening. What is the PIP money for?

Margiknot gives a very good example of how her adult son who has learning difficulties uses PIP to gain some independence.

But what about the hundreds of thousands of people claiming PIP for anxiety or depression?

I stress I am not suggesting that the symptoms of either aren’t sometimes extremely debilitating.

I can see how someone might score 8 points on the DLA scale, especially in the category Engaging with other people face to face.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

If I am understanding this, they would be awarded the lower weekly amount of £72.65 per week.

That’s a very specific amount. It would be useful to know how Government arrive at that.

How might someone who is anxious and depressed spend £72.65 a week to gain independence that they wouldn’t otherwise be able to have?

Can anyone give some examples please?

Now that the Mental Health system has shrunk so much, people are using PIP money to pay for carers for the people contact/leaving home/assist in what people would do socially on the most ordinary levels instead of condition worsening.

It used to be that Mental Health services for adults had weekly nurse visits, plus OT support, plus day or drop in centres. This has been wiped out completely, and its a valid use of PIP.

Well said Wyllow3

It isn’t easy getting PIP, and forms are a minefield to fill in.I once helped a neighbour who in my view deserved to get it, but she didn’t.

Oreo

It isn’t easy getting PIP, and forms are a minefield to fill in.I once helped a neighbour who in my view deserved to get it, but she didn’t.

Oreo thanks for contributing that experience and your conclusion about eligibility not being as straightforward as we all want it to be. I may well be accused of heartless lurch right but my experience is the majority qualify genuinely, but a reasonable number know how to make the forms fit their ‘need’ dishonesty
We all know tax fraud is more expensive for the government than benefit fraud. That doesn’t mean the allocation of PIP etc doesn’t need a major overhaul with reductions in the numbers given these benefits.
I’m furious that services that could support people with depression/addiction/anxiety were destroyed, one result being the huge increase in people with mental health problems on long term sick. I got sick of people telling me they’d never work again “it’s a mugs game. I get more on the sick”

Runs to hide behind sofa, tin hat firmly in place