Grooming gangs. Where are the parents?

David49

One of my niece's was a problem due to abuse by father at home absconded often from 14 to 16 police brought her home repeatedly but would do the same a few days later.

She lived in Australia and was never taken into care or groomed as far as Ive heard, at 16 she left home and lived rough, at 18 she joined the Air Force and found her family there, 20 yrs on still serving.

In the UK she would have gone into care but it would not have made any difference rebellious children treat it as a game run away police take them back but there are no locked doors so they are out a few days later. They all think it’s fun until they are hooked on drugs and out of control.

I had to read this post several times to be fair to my interpretation of it.
A child being abused by her father isn't absconding she is trying to stop the abuse and she managed to do that when she was still a child of 16. She was not a rebellious child playing a game and having fun. Was the father every held to account?
Well done your brave neice for finding her family.

David “one of my nieces was a problem due to abuse by father… “ your post yesterday evening.
I have a problem with that statement because it was not your niece who was the problem but the father.
She was returned home every tine, to be abused again, !
It’s hardly surprising she went off the rails, it happens all the time.
The problem was the father.

Residential care for children is not like prison. They can't be locked in.

But the point is, some of these children are placed in residential homes because they are out of control; they need more control to protect them from themselves and from predators.
The social worker who ran a very noisy and poorly organised youth club locally had the best of intentions when she told me, 'I can ask these kids to do things, but I can't tell them, that's not my brief'. Hence it collapsed in chaos and was closed down.
A teaching friend ran a 'sinbin' where children who opted out of school learned through art; again run with the best of intentions, it had to be closed down. These children ignored safety boundaries because they had never been enforced in their lives and they ignored any attempts she made to impose them.

Work meant I often visited children in residential care establishments. It’s inaccurate to say that staff didn’t care about the children living there. Simple responses to complex problems never add anything constructive to discussions like this

I was under the impression that perpetrators target children who are vulnerable in the first place.

You are right butterandjam, they do need to be hauled over the coals

butterandjam

Easybee wrote "Some of these girls were in care because they were beyond the control of their parents, which is why the Care Homes involved need to be called to account.

Residential care for children is not like prison. They can't be locked in.

The staff clearly didn’t give a fig about the children in their care obviously.

Commonground

Thank you, Petra. I remember my eldest daughter, shortly after she started secondary school asking me if I'd had any kids before I got married or if her dad had fathered any children other than ours. Nope, we met, fell in love, got married and then had our children. She groaned and said "Oh Mum, we're so dull and boring " What wouldn't I give to be able to go back to our dull, boring little family.

A lot to be said for that, but I'd have missed the curiosity about the world around us, people, social concerns, world concerns.

Petra 👍🏻

Thank you, Petra. I remember my eldest daughter, shortly after she started secondary school asking me if I'd had any kids before I got married or if her dad had fathered any children other than ours. Nope, we met, fell in love, got married and then had our children. She groaned and said "Oh Mum, we're so dull and boring " What wouldn't I give to be able to go back to our dull, boring little family.

Commonground
I hear you😥 Too many on this site make judgments on others peoples lives without having the foggiest idea.
My daughter’s close friend has been to hell and back with just such a child.
They live in. £2million + house. Her father’s work is often seen on TV. Her mother is a sahm. Everything you could want. But it happened to them and hundreds of others in exactly the same position.
I often want to scream are you for real when I read some posts.

Needless to say, my friend is/was white - and `I feel I shouldn't need to say this but the "its so much all Pakistani" `I felt it necessary.

Georgesgran

The girls - children - were already vulnerable and being taken into care isn’t something LA’s do at the drop of a hat. Girls came from all backgrounds, but for whatever reason were deemed beyond parental (often just Mum) control. I’m sure some were very concerned by the issue of a care order, but others would be pleased to see the back of their ‘problem’ girl. Back in the day, children were often placed in a care home miles away to discourage abusive parents from visiting and on other occasions, parents were asked simply not to visit to give the child time to settle in.
Some girls would be truanting and rebellious, possibly looking and trying to act beyond their years and the lookout for the grooming gangs would know where to find them and make an approach through an innocent meeting - possibly a young member, driving a flash car, offering lifts and then giving gifts convincing the girls that they were boyfriend and girlfriend, in a deep and meaning relationship. Then, those gifts might escalate to drink and drugs and the more vulnerable the girl the more she’d want to accept them, to keep this lovely young man - her own real boyfriend, someone who tells her he loves her, that she’s the one, his one and only. It’s possible that other girls in care would be jealous of her, so the invitation would be made to include her - another recruit to the vile gangs.

This to me says a lot.

May I share my experience of such a girl/woman? I met her in a Mental Health context as she suffered a great deal most of her life. I actually met here - and `I think its necessary tho I'm unwilling to say that I was an inpatient with her back in 2006/7 so really do know her well not as a professional. (am a great deal better now, alas, not her).

She was a sweetheart - but it was all down to the terrible twists of her evil father, who groomed her from age 12 to have sex with his friends. Yet she thought he really loved her, the manipulative barsteward.

So she grew up with this and became a "working girl". Then in her 20's developed a very serious form of bi-polar illness, extreme ups and downs. Bi-ploar has degrees, and she had the worst - on the hit, going so crazy police had to come round to drag her out not that long ago, and a low - I saw for myself on the ward - not able to get out of bed, eat, or anything.

We had become friends as she had helped me, it was a mutual thing she let me feed her when down.

Social services or Mental health services were involved with the family becuase her brother was learning disabled or autistic, but the family all hid what happened. Mum was depressed and concentrated on disabled brother.

Of course when my friend got so ill she was very involved with both social services as she had 2 children and mental health services, but far far too late. I never spoke to her about school that `I can remember.

she is now, if she is still with us, very ill - the mental health meds (and she really DID get a lot of help tho so much less now) - those meds had to be such heavy duty in the end after years they crashed her digestive system and she had a stoma bag and was grossly overweight (no way round this as the meds that calmed her down are also'put on weight)

So you can see that although SSD was involved when she was a child because of her brother, her Dad was able to abuse noticed, mother was ineffectual with this bully, and she would never "shop" her "loving Dad" to the school.

What could have been done introspect? I would hope now that schools were more aware of child abuse than they were 40 years ago, much much more aware, when almost certainly y friend was displaying symptoms.

Thank goodness for that, however difficult it is to make it work becuase of resources. the police were never involved - the father kept his nose clean. His gang of "friends - grooming abusers - kept stum.

Above all, I'd like to think that girls are taught more about abuse, it had to be via school in this case, to even begin to come forward.

So, start by educating children as gently as possible about abuse, and give them safe chances to speak out without cticising the abuser. It might all never have happened. So although resources are shorter now, hopefully there are ways for girls to be able to speak up.

I haven't seen this lovely lady for a few years -it was last time I saw her, only once her Dad had died, she told me all.

How should the social workers improve the treatment of these girls in care.

Do you lock them in,
Should they only allowed out under supervision

I had 3 daughters none were a problem but my wife never allowed them out until they were 16 without supervision she trusted, in turn they didn’t allow their daughters out unsupervised

silversurf

These poor girls seem to have no parental guidance or discipline. Why are social services and the police not involved at an earlier stage.
If my daughter was associating with such people , staying out till all hours and wandering all over the country I would certainly be reporting to the authorities. Yet no one seems to mention them.

Although this thread has gone the way of so many others on this subject, I would like to address the original question. The problem is I can't. The abused youngsters come from different families in different circumstances. What I can do is tell you what I did. My youngest daughter has severe ADHD, diagnosed at 9, with great support from her school. She was a real Daddy's girl, so when he suddenly died when she was 12, her world collapsed. Her already impulsive behaviour became downright self destructive. She was groomed and abused by a group of young white men (18 to mid twenties) in our "nice" Home Counties market town. After a year of hell, drinking alcohol, using drugs and disappearing for days on end she was taken into care. Fortunately, she was put in foster care. She absconded from the first two, so she was put in a third in a different area with a lovely family that we stayed in touch with. When children's services deemed that I was unable to keep her safe I agreed for her to go into care under a section 20 agreement. This meant that there was no court order so it was easier to have her returned to me. I sold my house, gave up my family and a job that I loved. I bought a house in an area where we had had many wonderful family holidays several hundred miles away. It was unbelievably hard to leave behind her older siblings but they had jobs and their own lives. Her self destructive behaviour re-emerged a few months later. She is now 26 and just recently she seems to have been able to settle and treat herself with kindness. So, crack on and gasp, clutch your pearls and shake your head. Don't be so quick to judge and think that it could never happen to you and yours.

I think it is time that the incoming migrant men from countries with terrible attitudes to women, are educated into our western culture and also told that they have to get on board if they intend to remain in the UK.

They remain a danger, educate them instead to become better citizens. The way they teach their young men to regard white girls as either prostitutes or whores is disgusting.

This disaster, and horrific abuse is not and never was the fault of the children/young girls. It is the fault of the abusers, the men, and the police, social workers, and councils must account for their lack of care.
Read the Casey report

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/684ffae201d3b0e7b62da722/National_Audit_on_Group-based_Child_Sexual_Exploitation_and_Abuse.pdf

One of my niece's was a problem due to abuse by father at home absconded often from 14 to 16 police brought her home repeatedly but would do the same a few days later.

She lived in Australia and was never taken into care or groomed as far as Ive heard, at 16 she left home and lived rough, at 18 she joined the Air Force and found her family there, 20 yrs on still serving.

In the UK she would have gone into care but it would not have made any difference rebellious children treat it as a game run away police take them back but there are no locked doors so they are out a few days later. They all think it’s fun until they are hooked on drugs and out of control.

Claremont

what difference would it make if said boyfriends were 'ethnic' or not? Wow!

We all know that many grooming gangs were not 'ethnic' at all. I remember seeing the photos recently of those from Stoke!

A line from Hansard.
in the local data examined from 3 police forces the audit identifies clear evidence of over representation amongst suspects of Asian and Pakistani heritage men
So you’re saying this isn’t true?

Carers in these homes aren’t allowed to prevent these children going out at night. Some children have put themselves into care in order to do as they please. This is sadly a fact. I know this as my sister in law was a senior sw and she told me it’s been going on for over 25 years.

"85% of child abusers were white" pro rata surely, 85% of the population of England are white British.

Galaxy

Casey was specifically asked to look at issues relating to ethnicity Claremont.

I’m sure Claremont knew that but it just had to be said.

In addition as already discussed on one of these threads it has been shown that the data collection is not reliable.
I wonder how many safeguarding issues we are going to wade through where the data collection is pointless. It never seems to end.

Casey was specifically asked to look at issues relating to ethnicity Claremont.

Iam64

windmill, where did you read that

Iam64
This victim ( she gives her name) made those claims.
I could be wrong but I think the being met at care homes was featured in 3 girls.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29110085